The Problem With Giant's Lair..

[Rick Sanchez]

Hey everyone,​

I’m going to be direct about this because it’s been building for a while. There is a culture issue with staff on this server, and it’s getting worse over time. This isn’t about every staff member. There are genuinely good people here. That’s part of what makes this frustrating. But there is a specific group that continues to push things in a certain direction, and nothing meaningful is being done to check it.


What I’ve been seeing isn’t random. There’s a pattern. Certain staff members seem to decide they don’t like someone, and from that point forward, everything that person does starts getting picked apart. Things that would normally be ignored or brushed off suddenly become problems. I’ve seen conversations where logs and messages are being combed through, not to determine whether something clearly broke a rule, but to figure out whether it can be framed that way. Once moderation starts operating like that, it stops feeling fair.

---

A good example of how this plays out is the situation with Proper. At one point, she made a simple joke about someone’s pillow being yellow, saying “yellow ass pillow.” Nothing came of it at the time. There was no warning, no punishment, and no indication that anyone even cared. Later on, that exact moment gets brought up in discussions as an example of harassment. This isn’t an isolated case either. It’s one of a laundry list of small, random “offenses” that get collected and reinterpreted over time to build a larger narrative. That should concern people. It shows that things are being saved and reshaped later when it becomes useful.


What makes it harder to ignore is how clearly things shifted after a specific moment. Before a certain argument, Proper was in good standing. She was trusted and even in training for a staff role. Then there was a public disagreement involving pronouns. She clarified her own, was labeled something she wasn’t, and when that was challenged, the staff member involved didn’t step back. They doubled down. After that, everything changed. There were more punishments, more scrutiny, and more ongoing conversations about banning her. The timing lines up too cleanly to write off as coincidence.


At the same time, the way rules are being applied doesn’t feel consistent. One of the same staff members involved in these situations has publicly used the term “trap,” which is widely known to be offensive. Nothing happened as a result. Meanwhile, harmless jokes are being pulled into discussions and labeled as harassment. That kind of inconsistency makes it difficult to take enforcement seriously because it starts to feel dependent on who the person is rather than what they actually did.

---

From a player perspective, this kind of environment changes how people behave. You start second guessing what you say, not because you’re worried about breaking rules, but because you don’t know what might get taken out of context later or who might already have an issue with you. It stops feeling like a place where rules are applied fairly and starts feeling like certain people have more influence over how situations are interpreted. Situations like this don’t continue unless they’re allowed to. Whether it’s being ignored or just not addressed properly, the outcome is the same. A small group ends up having a disproportionate amount of influence over how things are handled, and that shapes the overall culture of the server.


At some point, this needs to be addressed directly. There needs to be consistency in how rules are applied. Staff should be held to the same standards as everyone else, if not higher. There also needs to be a clear distinction between moderating behavior and targeting individuals, because right now that line feels increasingly blurred. There are a lot of good people on this server, which is why this is frustrating to watch. But when moderation starts to feel selective and personal, it affects the entire experience. It creates an environment that people don’t want to stay in long term.


If the goal is to actually grow this community, this kind of environment is going to hold it back. People don’t stick around in places where they feel watched, singled out, or treated inconsistently. They either leave quietly or disengage over time. I want to see this server grow. There’s enough here for it to be something genuinely strong. But that’s not going to happen if this kind of behavior continues to be encouraged or ignored.

---

And to be clear, this isn’t just my perspective. I’ve had conversations with multiple staff members and players who see the same thing and agree with it. The difference is they’re not willing to say it publicly.... Not because they disagree but because they don’t want to deal with the fallout.


That alone should be a red flag. When people feel like speaking up is going to put a target on them, that’s not a healthy community. That’s exactly the kind of environment this post is calling out. At that point, the problem isn’t just the behavior itself. It’s the fact that people feel like they can’t even talk about it without risking consequences.


That’s where this is at right now.


And if that doesn’t get addressed, it’s going to keep holding this community back no matter how much potential it has.

 

[Memelord]

hey i just wanted to set the record straight and let everyone know that i made the yellow ass pillow comment first.

 

[BART]

i think this can be fixed by adding the grappling hook back

 

[pigeon]

I really appreciate you bringing this up, genuinely. I feel like a lot of attempts to have this discussion in various staff channels end up going in circles or having intentions misconstrued. I desperately want this community to be a welcoming and fun space, and I believe that anyone who chooses to spend their time here also has the same goal. I'm going to respond to your post addressing some of the issues you've identified, as well as being up some opposite sides of those coins. In the spirit of transparency and fostering a positive dialogue here, I'm going to encourage anyone who feels singled out by staff actions, or like moderation decisions have been inconsistent, or otherwise has an issue with the resolution or lack thereof in any recent situation to speak your mind here. Whether you are a community member or a staff member, you can speak freely here without impunity and I will give you a good faith answer with insight into the behind the scenes discussions and intentions at all levels of the staff team.

I’ve seen conversations where logs and messages are being combed through, not to determine whether something clearly broke a rule, but to figure out whether it can be framed that way

This happened. The "vibe audit" was a direct response to a problem that we've let get out of hand. You mentioned proper by name, and she's one of a few people directly singled out by this action. Our intention was to address a different pattern, where comments made by the people being discussed have contributed to a hostile environment over a long period of time. These comments are pretty milquetoast as well, which makes it both hard to moderate and makes the people for whom the comments are directed at more hesitant to speak up. But the sum of these comments is unquestionably making people uncomfortable, and we've had a lot of direct and indirect complaints about this. And this is coming from more than just the small, vocal group of people who have expressed dislike of these people. I mentioned it's difficult to moderate, because what we're trying to address isn't a direct rule break, it's a vibe. The result of doing so is that we're going to make mistakes in doing so, and people are going to take matters into their own hands by making their own jabs as well, neither of which feel good anyone. The inconsistency in handling this is something that we're trying to be more mindful of. We've been slowing down in addressing this so that we can have more deliberate and inclusive conversations about the culture being created both by these comments and by our response to these comments.

To address directly the idea that we're making biased staff decisions that target specific people: we probably are. I promise you that is not our intention, but we're human and naturally none of us are immune to personal biases or lending more credence to people we're closer to, or people who are louder to us, or our own experiences with specific people. That isn't something we want to be doing, but it's something that is clearly felt by others and we'd like to be more cognizant of. At the same time though, it's not so cut and dry as to simply write it off as staff members weaponizing their positions against people they don't like. These staff actions are for the most part taken as a result of another action that, intentionally or not, creates perceived hostility. I say this not to blame any single person or group, but to acknowledge that effort needs to be made by everyone involved. Leadership, the staff team at large, and the community need to be better about engaging with each other in good faith, being honest, respectful, and direct about things they take issue with, and being cognizant of the culture they're fostering. There is no single series of actions that leadership alone can take to address this. It needs conscious effort from everyone to be better to each other.

At the same time, the way rules are being applied doesn’t feel consistent. One of the same staff members involved in these situations has publicly used the term “trap,” which is widely known to be offensive. Nothing happened as a result. Meanwhile, harmless jokes are being pulled into discussions and labeled as harassment.

Getting this out of the way first, to the point about a staff member using the term "trap" with no repercussions, I'm not aware of this specific instance and can't really speak to whether or not the context was harmful. But I've actually written a good bit about the term. It has negative connotations, but it's not inherently negative or something that needs to be avoided entirely.

I ended up touching on inconsistent moderation above, but there's a bit more I wanted to say about it. Nearly every example that got brought up as harassment was not simply something cherry picked to paint someone in a negative light, they were comments that explicitly made someone uncomfortable and was brought to the attention of one of us. It's really not as sinister is coming through messages to try to find reasons to get rid of people. No one was punished for anything that we pulled up when we were going through messages like that. The goal was to have people air their grievances so we could get on the same page about what's actually problematic in an effort to make our moderation more consistent.


There's more to be said, but I'm going to pause here and let people share their thoughts. I don't want this to feel like leadership refuting your concerns, I genuinely really do want to discuss this with the community.

 

[helix]

The inconsistency in handling this is something that we're trying to be more mindful of. We've been slowing down in addressing this so that we can have more deliberate and inclusive conversations about the culture being created both by these comments and by our response to these comments

I think this comment here made me realize that there's probably two distinctive issues here which is probably what makes this conversation more difficult. In the "vibe audit" there were absolutely comments that we brought forward that were an issue- but frankly, for the most part it actually worked. Most of the people in that have been avoiding the behavior specifically that they were asked to stop, maybe with a couple slips here or there, but it is vastly different than it was preaudit. Despite this, the constant nit-picking has frankly driven people away. I've for the most part have cut my interaction with the community. Last night, I had two other personal discords that I am personally in that I saw that were made specifically because they felt more comfortable interacting there than in GL. They were talking like friends, playing games, and doing everything that used to happen on GL. But they feel like they can't. I think what's most telling to me here is that the same people that were hanging out in the community before that are missing, are still around. They're just not around at GL. And this includes not only community members, but staff members as well in all ranks.

I'm going to give a specific example, that I probably shouldn't know about but I think gets the point across. Last night, a spammer joined the discord, and dropped a funny copy/pasta style spam message. 6 people were having a hilarious time with it, joking around, and it lasted about 15 minutes or so? In staff channels, this got presented as a problem that needed to be a addressed. Friends having fun with each other, for a short burst of a time just laughing between each other... was a problem. And shoutbox was declared especially bad that night.

I guess my point in my post here is that I think your post missed some a lot of the points rick is getting at here, but I understand why. Despite that, I think this is a solvable problem that would require just some definition of what y'all really want in a community. If posting like that really is a problem to y'all, say it. It would be different than how both SGM and AHG approached communities, but hey, GL is different and has a different goal. The problem is now, is that no one seems to want to be upfront about it, or it seems like maybe that goal for what they want the community to look like is. That's okay too. But where the problem is that in figuring that out, there's group of people here that feels like they're being targeted while y'all try to work that out. I didn't include Crescent when I said that it would be different- because honestly, we had a different approach there. We literally banned people because we just didn't want them there. They didn't match the vibe of the community, so we just didn't deal with it. I'm not sure if that's the solution here, but at least it was honest and upfront which is what's being asked of here.

 

[Sticky Joe]

I've told some new players when they would ask "Can i do this/Can i say this?" That it depends on how much the staff likes you, And i'm serious it can decide whether staff treat the things you say and do as a character trait and brush it off or the staff weaponizing discretion to punish you for breaking rules that do not exist to bully you off the server. Shit sucks man

 

[Frosty]

The Purpose Of This Post: I'm going to start this post off by laying out my intentions and what I want to come out of this post. I want change in the staff team. I want me and others to stop being over-scrutinized and harassed by members of staff. I'm bringing this to light as private channels simply do/did not work for this kind of issue. I'm going to be very frank in this post . Although I will try to avoid mentioning members of the community by name , I will if necessary.


I've been playing on GL since around October , before that I was a staff member on SGM for around 6 months. I came to this server after enjoying the laid-back atmosphere and environment , and how I would not be instantly punished for semi-controversial topics. Since October I've been very active , including around a 3 month period where I got on nearly everyday. For some additional context , I ( particularly when I first started playing ) played up my personality , making wild comments that I knew would drum up conversation, laughs and general discourse . Although at times surrounding certain topics would get intense , I made sure to not only stop when I was being asked to stop , but also maintain good relations with a majority of the staff team , as I do not like drama.

I have had good interactions with a majority of the staff team , but there is a small minority inside not only the staff team but the management team who do not enjoy my humor, not enjoy my personality. I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is the rampant baiting , harassment , and over moderation of not only me , but people I know. I have personally witnessed in real time as both members of the staff team and , " non staff " break rules like blatant harassment, and baiting , and not only not be punished , but not even be reprimanded.

One example that broke the proverbial camel’s back occurred while I was in the general vc with
A group of friends, streaming resident evil 8. A staff member joined and remained there for roughly 45 minutes to an hour ( I do not remember exactly how long they were in there ) without saying anything or interacting with us. During that time, they appeared to be silently observing as they did not interact with us at all.. Eventually, a new member of the community in the VC said a slur, which eventually led to that person being punished .


To be clear, my issue is not with the punishment itself. My concern is that the staff member seemed to join with the intention of monitoring individuals they already had a negative bias toward, passively recording the situation in order to catch and punish someone, rather than actively moderating or engaging in good faith. To add on to that, that same staff member did not say anything when the slur was said, they stayed silent, handed out the punishment and relied on us to clarify the rules regarding slurs in the discord server.

Another example is being warned for doing a Trump impression while playing on the TTT server by a separate staff member. Around 30 minutes later, another player was performing the same impression and was not warned. Situations like this contribute to the perception of inconsistency in moderation and raise concerns about enforcement depending on the individual rather than the behavior itself.



I believe the inconsistency in moderation , along with the wider “toxic “ moderation environment, has contributed to a decline in activity across vc, shoutbox, and the TTT server. While there are multiple factors involved in this matter , overly strict or inconsistent moderation has been a significant reason for my own reduced activity.


Another concern I have with current moderation practices is what feels like “building cases” against players rather than addressing behavior in the moment. In some situations, instead of speaking to a player and correcting the behavior as it occurs, issues are noted and later referenced when decisions about punishment are made. I have at least one example of a staff member going out of their way to specifically say that they were “ gathering evidence “ to push for a COI ( conflict of interest ) ban before either taking correctional action or handing out a punishment. This contributes to a feeling that moderation is less focused on real-time guidance and more on compiling prior incidents in order to permanently remove members of the community they have “ issues “ with.


I have many more examples of this brand of behavior, but simply put, I don’t feel the need to publish them considering how many people in this community have expressed the same concerns.

I want this community to grow. I enjoy playing on the TTT server. I enjoy being in general vc, but for all the reasons and concerns listed above , I cannot comfortably remain active in an environment in which I am judged by how much staff likes me instead of my actions.

 

[bone ore]

im just glad im not the problem child anymore

 

[ParkRangerMoon]

It would be different than how both SGM and AHG approached communities, but hey, GL is different and has a different goal.

an important thing to note, at least in regards to AHG as I don't remember SGM as well, is that this is the sort of thing that specifically lead to the decline of AHG. Targeting of players or even staff members that were disliked by a few and were eventually bullied out of the community until there was no longer a community. Moreover, the staff weaponizing the ruleset and punishments as a means to bully. Staff would often approach situations with a mindset that the appearance of professionalism meant moral superiority as if this is a job, or that we are lawyers arguing in front of a judge, instead of a group of people who come together through the shared interest of a video game.

Another concern I have with current moderation practices is what feels like “building cases” against players rather than addressing behavior in the moment. In some situations, instead of speaking to a player and correcting the behavior as it occurs, issues are noted and later referenced when decisions about punishment are made. I have at least one example of a staff member going out of their way to specifically say that they were “ gathering evidence “ to push for a COI ( conflict of interest ) ban before either taking correctional action or handing out a punishment. This contributes to a feeling that moderation is less focused on real-time guidance and more on compiling prior incidents in order to permanently remove members of the community they have “ issues “ with.

and this is exactly right. often times issues are just left to build when most problems could be solved by just sending someone a dm saying "hey lets just chill out about X"

 

[YoAmTrash]

Fantastic post

I don't want to throw anyone under the bus. I'll try to keep everyone as anonymous as possible, but I want to share a really bad negative experience that I had to go through as a player.

During my time as a staff member, shortly after I had been promoted to a moderator, I had a talk with someone sharing concerns about my playstyle. The person, as well as a few other people, were apparently having problems with how "aggressive" I was when playing the game, and the way I played was not suitable for a staff member. At the time, I was extremely grateful for having received the opportunity to be a staff member so of course I would want to change whatever I was doing wrong, I wanted to have a positive effect on the community after all. Unfortunately, the days after that initial message got progressively worse. Despite me trying my absolute hardest, the changes that I was doing were not enough. I had no clue as to what they wanted me to do.

There were multiple days when I would be staffing, or just sitting in a voice chat, then randomly get a DM with a YouTube link, or an image from a staff member that had handled a report made against me on the server, and then I would have a long conversation about why what I did was wrong, and that I need to stop being aggressive with my kills. I sat through a lot of these, but I didn't mind them, I looked positively on each one as a learning experience to understand what I could improve. And of course I made mistakes, I was upset at myself after being confronted with those reports. I kept being told that what I did was toxic or would have a negative impact on the opposite player, and I was pretty mad at myself for it.

But after weeks of being reprimanded for the same thing over and over again, at some point I started to defend my actions. I was having arguments with a few people every single day. I would have to explain everything that led me shooting someone at a specific moment, why I called a kos, what traitorous act they committed, etc. I found myself saving recordings of my gameplay not for staffing purposes, but just to explain and have visual evidence for why on round 3 of innocent motel I decided to KOS y player for doing y thing at y time.

One conversation stood out to me.
"I’ve received consistent feedback from both players and staff expressing concern about how aggressive your approach has been. While your actions technically fall within the rules, regularly pushing them to their limits has created an environment that some are finding difficult to enjoy. In fact, a few staff members have reached out to let me know that they feel uncomfortable being online when you're playing, describing your behavior as highly competitive and more fitting for a fast-paced FPS environment than what we aim to cultivate here."

This ^ made me feel awful at the time, and is something that I still think about to this day. But it also made me angry, we had switched from the issue being how I get kills, to how I use my game knowledge to play the game. I got called a tryhard and a toxic player multiple times in some of these messages, and I was beating myself up for it. I've never considered myself good at this game, is Gmod TTT of all things, an almost 20 year old game with a ton of bugs and problems. But what puzzled me was that now the problem had become how I was using my experience with the game, and basic knowledge and common sense to weaponize it against me, to try and tell me that I'm the problem because of that? Is any other staff member receiving these kinds of comments? Any other player?

"I'll be blunt with it, I want you to stop treating this game like it's life or death, be okay with taking a death you don't want, and be okay with letting a kill go that you do. It's a bad look for a staff member to consistently be the aggressive one on the server, not in attitude but in playstyle.
This is an issue recognized by many, and not by yourself, so this might be ample time for a little self reflection."

I was absolutely baffled, the way that I interpreted this message originally was asking that I purposefully throw games/metagame, or play worse. Which hurt a bit because I had no idea what I was doing wrong, I thought the way that I was playing the game was fair and normal. But to top it all off, I get hit with this
"I don't wish to continue piling it on, I am compiling everything and will have it to you asap, but going forward I am requesting those in leadership when on with you to Slay for forgiven reports as well. I want you to have a physical understanding of what all has been told to me.".

So at one point they started to save even more evidence and things to use against me, aside from the countless ones that I was receiving daily. To surprise of no one I started getting slain for everything, reports that were valid, and even invalid, and I could prove that they were, but they did not care, or sometimes they would just "oops sorry I didn't see your explanation" or "I didn't know what you meant in your report response, sorry". Funnily enough, around the time that this started happening, I had T-Mods sending me messages in game questioning what I was doing in my gameplay. If they were asking because they needed more context or help in a report it'd be fine, but I was getting those comments on random kills that I made, which never got reported, nor questioned by the person that died. At one point it just felt like the entire staff team was against me, every time I played in the server with someone else I was constantly questioning if something that I did would get saved as this "evidence" and I would get in trouble for it. I could not even joke around with other staff members or my own friends because some of the discussions that I got into were because I thought I was being friendly, or obviously joking with someone that I had a connection with.

As a staff member, I was scared of doing anything for fear of trouble and losing the opportunity that had been given to me. As a player, I was scared of playing the game the only way I know how, for fear of repercussions and punishment.

There were also moments when a clearly toxic kill had been made against me, or I made a valid kill, but the staff handling my report would go on extensive, and I MEAN extensive lengths to justify not giving a slay to the player I had reported, or slay me. This always happened when I reported/got reported by another staff member. Lengthy discord conversations in the staff channels of them explaining why they are not giving a slay to someone, or why I am getting slain. And those were always awful because I had to go through multiple clips that I had saved to justify, and prove that a valid play was made on my part, or why a report should have been valid/invalid (not once did the staff team agree with me despite what I was showing). But then would come admins, leads, mods, people that weren't even on the server when the report occurred, and they always took the side of the opposing person. That was very annoying, bit of bias shown from a lot of staff members in some of those discussions was the only word that I could use to describe them. This led to me having a really bad impression of them. And one of the funniest things is that sometimes I would get asked why am I trying to report another staff member when we are "supposed to be on the same team".

At one point I started to get messages from the upper administration not because of my playstyle, but because they were wondering why I was reporting staff members. Asking if I was okay, that it was unlike me, and whatnot. Had people questioning every single one of my reports plus the ones that got into those previously mentioned arguments. And even if my reports were marked as valid, they would not slay the person because apparently the RDM offense was "not that big of a deal" or "did not affect your round". Which sure, some may have been that way, but think how as a player one would feel if you report someone and someone from the upper administration told you that. (This never mattered when other staff members were reporting me apparently)

To this day, it certainly has gotten better, but I still see moments where a mod will give me a slay. Despite me, in detail, explaining every single action that led to me killing a player, but sometimes they ignore it, use technicalities, or just miss something, a clear mistake on their part, but nothing comes out of it. When I was a staff I was told that when someone is slain incorrectly , at the very least apologize and give yourself a slay. But when that happens to me, the staff just say that it was an accident, and just go on with their day. This would not bother me too much, but I must be in the top 3 most slain people in the community, and I don't want to get a ban because of "excessive slays" when a decent portion of them are mistakes that the staff team is making. And I want to believe these are mistakes.



Anyways, a lot of yapping. I probably left out some things, or don't remember all of them perfectly, I just wanted to share this bad moment that I went through as a player, and person in this community. Maybe I was in the wrong, I want to believe that was the case and I should just leave it alone, but part of me just wants to get this out. I don't want issues with anybody, but I could not keep this in my chest forever.

 

[kevin]

i cant read all theses words but i agree

 

[Agennon]

There is some Explicit Targeting happening from the staff, but I don't believe we'd agree on what that looks like. We are Targeting Content and Behaviors, not specific users. If you believe you are being directly targeted because of this, consider how your content is affecting everyone else.

The Content we've cracked down on include
- Calls for Violence and Death, including Ethnic Cleansing
- Spam posting involving incel slang that is intended to dehumanize women.
- Direct Harassment and Hostilities towards other Members

We have known instances of this content driving people out of the server, or otherwise making spaces unsafe for them to participate in.

We had a big problem with things not being handled at all, and the problems were running rampant. So we took a step back and started examining what we were missing and why. Turns out we had a major breakdown in staff training when it applies to the Discord. This led to a bystander effect where staff did nothing because they never saw anyone else do anything.

So we got to the bottom of the content we want to keep out of the community. Then we let the users contributing that content know our stance and gave them formal warnings. No punishments, just an attempt at conveying that we're trying to make the server a place that everyone wants to be in.

This initiative has been met with outright hostility from the users involved, ignored messages, and even more trolling aimed at ridiculing the situation, or outright attempting to loophole around the warnings given.

I want everyone to enjoy being in the server, and that takes work from everyone. We aren't going to stop cracking down on behavior that isn't representative of the community we're trying to build. If you find yourself at odds with that goal, please consider what it is you're trying to accomplish with your contributions.

At no point has the internal discussion been about building case files against specific users in the interest of permanently removing them from the community. If you have been told a different story you have been lied to by someone with a willful interest in escalating tensions. While some individual staff might feel differently, I want everyone here interacting, as long as those interactions are genuine and welcoming to everyone.

 

[helix]

There is some Explicit Targeting happening from the staff, but I don't believe we'd agree on what that looks like. We are Targeting Content and Behaviors, not specific users. If you believe you are being directly targeted because of this, consider how your content is affecting everyone else.

The Content we've cracked down on include
- Calls for Violence and Death, including Ethnic Cleansing
- Spam posting involving incel slang that is intended to dehumanize women.
- Direct Harassment and Hostilities towards other Members

We have known instances of this content driving people out of the server, or otherwise making spaces unsafe for them to participate in.

We had a big problem with things not being handled at all, and the problems were running rampant. So we took a step back and started examining what we were missing and why. Turns out we had a major breakdown in staff training when it applies to the Discord. This led to a bystander effect where staff did nothing because they never saw anyone else do anything.

So we got to the bottom of the content we want to keep out of the community. Then we let the users contributing that content know our stance and gave them formal warnings. No punishments, just an attempt at conveying that we're trying to make the server a place that everyone wants to be in.

This initiative has been met with outright hostility from the users involved, ignored messages, and even more trolling aimed at ridiculing the situation, or outright attempting to loophole around the warnings given.

I want everyone to enjoy being in the server, and that takes work from everyone. We aren't going to stop cracking down on behavior that isn't representative of the community we're trying to build. If you find yourself at odds with that goal, please consider what it is you're trying to accomplish with your contributions.

At no point has the internal discussion been about building case files against specific users in the interest of permanently removing them from the community. If you have been told a different story you have been lied to by someone with a willful interest in escalating tensions. While some individual staff might feel differently, I want everyone here interacting, as long as those interactions are genuine and welcoming to everyone.

I mean this with the utmost respect... did you even read what they have said here?

 

[Agennon]

I mean this with the utmost respect... did you even read what they have said here?

I have read every word. I implore you to read each of mine. We don't have unrealistic expectations.

Don't post memes literally wishing entire ethnic groups dead, don't be hateful to each other, and don't make this a place incels feel welcome in.

Beyond that, don't go out of your way to stir the pot or otherwise make people uncomfortable.

That's all that we want.

 

[helix]

I have read every word. I implore you to read each of mine. We don't have unrealistic expectations.

Don't post memes literally wishing entire ethnic groups dead, don't be hateful to each other, and don't make this a place incels feel welcome in.

Beyond that, don't go out of your way to stir the pot or otherwise make people uncomfortable.

That's all that we want.

I guess the reason I'm confused is because it seems to only be addressing one part of many that are being brought up here, that multiple people have been brought up, and it seems like you're only focused on one or two people here. It's ignoring the large scope of what Rick is talking about here and actually reinforcing the point he's making.

Look man, I joined here getting involved in something that I had absolutely no time to do. I left, because with that involvement, I felt I was being ignored, and I felt that it wasn't appreciated in times and conversations like this. I urge you to look at who has made this thread, who has agreed with it, and even consider those who are too scared to even speak up about it-- and listen to them. You know why this post was made in a public? Because they felt like they had to in order to even get you to respond to it and that if it got brought up in private, that it would be swept under the rug because they felt like previous conversations haven't been fruitful. It didn't start out like this, and I'm not sure what has changed.

 

[Agennon]

I guess the reason I'm confused is because it seems to only be addressing one part of many that are being brought up here, that multiple people have been brought up, and it seems like you're only focused on one or two people here. It's ignoring the large scope of what Rick is talking about here and actually reinforcing the point he's making.

Look man, I joined here getting involved in something that I had absolutely no time to do. I left, because with that involvement, I felt I was being ignored, and I felt that it wasn't appreciated in times and conversations like this. I urge you to look at who has made this thread, who has agreed with it, and even consider those who are too scared to even speak up about it-- and listen to them. You know why this post was made in a public? Because they felt like they had to in order to even get you to respond to it and that if it got brought up in private, that it would be swept under the rug because they felt like previous conversations haven't been fruitful. It didn't start out like this, and I'm not sure what has changed.

Ask me to address specific points of you think my coverage has been lacking.

This discussion has been ongoing for at least two months on one form or another. To say I've been absent from it is so off base it's shocking to hear you of all people, with access to multiple advisor level chats to suggest I've been silent on the perceived persecution of certain members.

Respond to what I'm actually saying. How does the content we're looking to remove from the discord appeal to you?

The problem isn't with these users specifically, and we are not trying to drive them out. We just want a safe space for everyone, them included.

The solution isn't to allow people to post content that is harmful. The solution is for people on both sides of the aisle to actually work together to stop the issues moving forward.

I know that we've taken those steps to achieve the best solution for everyone, and that involves compromise.

I speak for many more than myself that have already been targeted for speaking up on these issues. We have to all work together, and that can't happen if we can't admit there is a content and behavioral issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[zomborg]

I was the staff member that said trap.

I said it as a goofy reply to a situation in gen chat, as I have done many times saying "ur a ___". I've called someone a gargoyle. I've called someone a tuba. I didn't know "trap" was a word that could be misconstrued as something else like that and it was immediately deleted once it was pointed out to me, even if that was not my intention with what I said.

It was not used in a derogatory manner whatsoever, it was a joke that was not meant as the assumed way and literally meant in the context it was being used in. The difference between accidentally saying something that can have an alternative meaning and intentionally instigating and ragebaiting is gigantic. To assume that nobody said anything to me about it outside of general chat is also incorrect and my accidental ignorance was understood and it wasn't a big deal to anyone involved. I learned from the situation and nothing close to it has occurred again.

If you find yourself constantly being talked to about something, regardless of the situation, perhaps do some introspecting and personal growth.

 

[lars]

Fantastic post

I don't want to throw anyone under the bus. I'll try to keep everyone as anonymous as possible, but I want to share a really bad negative experience that I had to go through as a player.

During my time as a staff member, shortly after I had been promoted to a moderator, I had a talk with someone sharing concerns about my playstyle. The person, as well as a few other people, were apparently having problems with how "aggressive" I was when playing the game, and the way I played was not suitable for a staff member. At the time, I was extremely grateful for having received the opportunity to be a staff member so of course I would want to change whatever I was doing wrong, I wanted to have a positive effect on the community after all. Unfortunately, the days after that initial message got progressively worse. Despite me trying my absolute hardest, the changes that I was doing were not enough. I had no clue as to what they wanted me to do.

There were multiple days when I would be staffing, or just sitting in a voice chat, then randomly get a DM with a YouTube link, or an image from a staff member that had handled a report made against me on the server, and then I would have a long conversation about why what I did was wrong, and that I need to stop being aggressive with my kills. I sat through a lot of these, but I didn't mind them, I looked positively on each one as a learning experience to understand what I could improve. And of course I made mistakes, I was upset at myself after being confronted with those reports. I kept being told that what I did was toxic or would have a negative impact on the opposite player, and I was pretty mad at myself for it.

But after weeks of being reprimanded for the same thing over and over again, at some point I started to defend my actions. I was having arguments with a few people every single day. I would have to explain everything that led me shooting someone at a specific moment, why I called a kos, what traitorous act they committed, etc. I found myself saving recordings of my gameplay not for staffing purposes, but just to explain and have visual evidence for why on round 3 of innocent motel I decided to KOS y player for doing y thing at y time.

One conversation stood out to me.
"I’ve received consistent feedback from both players and staff expressing concern about how aggressive your approach has been. While your actions technically fall within the rules, regularly pushing them to their limits has created an environment that some are finding difficult to enjoy. In fact, a few staff members have reached out to let me know that they feel uncomfortable being online when you're playing, describing your behavior as highly competitive and more fitting for a fast-paced FPS environment than what we aim to cultivate here."

This ^ made me feel awful at the time, and is something that I still think about to this day. But it also made me angry, we had switched from the issue being how I get kills, to how I use my game knowledge to play the game. I got called a tryhard and a toxic player multiple times in some of these messages, and I was beating myself up for it. I've never considered myself good at this game, is Gmod TTT of all things, an almost 20 year old game with a ton of bugs and problems. But what puzzled me was that now the problem had become how I was using my experience with the game, and basic knowledge and common sense to weaponize it against me, to try and tell me that I'm the problem because of that? Is any other staff member receiving these kinds of comments? Any other player?

"I'll be blunt with it, I want you to stop treating this game like it's life or death, be okay with taking a death you don't want, and be okay with letting a kill go that you do. It's a bad look for a staff member to consistently be the aggressive one on the server, not in attitude but in playstyle.
This is an issue recognized by many, and not by yourself, so this might be ample time for a little self reflection."

I was absolutely baffled, the way that I interpreted this message originally was asking that I purposefully throw games/metagame, or play worse. Which hurt a bit because I had no idea what I was doing wrong, I thought the way that I was playing the game was fair and normal. But to top it all off, I get hit with this
"I don't wish to continue piling it on, I am compiling everything and will have it to you asap, but going forward I am requesting those in leadership when on with you to Slay for forgiven reports as well. I want you to have a physical understanding of what all has been told to me.".

So at one point they started to save even more evidence and things to use against me, aside from the countless ones that I was receiving daily. To surprise of no one I started getting slain for everything, reports that were valid, and even invalid, and I could prove that they were, but they did not care, or sometimes they would just "oops sorry I didn't see your explanation" or "I didn't know what you meant in your report response, sorry". Funnily enough, around the time that this started happening, I had T-Mods sending me messages in game questioning what I was doing in my gameplay. If they were asking because they needed more context or help in a report it'd be fine, but I was getting those comments on random kills that I made, which never got reported, nor questioned by the person that died. At one point it just felt like the entire staff team was against me, every time I played in the server with someone else I was constantly questioning if something that I did would get saved as this "evidence" and I would get in trouble for it. I could not even joke around with other staff members or my own friends because some of the discussions that I got into were because I thought I was being friendly, or obviously joking with someone that I had a connection with.

As a staff member, I was scared of doing anything for fear of trouble and losing the opportunity that had been given to me. As a player, I was scared of playing the game the only way I know how, for fear of repercussions and punishment.

There were also moments when a clearly toxic kill had been made against me, or I made a valid kill, but the staff handling my report would go on extensive, and I MEAN extensive lengths to justify not giving a slay to the player I had reported, or slay me. This always happened when I reported/got reported by another staff member. Lengthy discord conversations in the staff channels of them explaining why they are not giving a slay to someone, or why I am getting slain. And those were always awful because I had to go through multiple clips that I had saved to justify, and prove that a valid play was made on my part, or why a report should have been valid/invalid (not once did the staff team agree with me despite what I was showing). But then would come admins, leads, mods, people that weren't even on the server when the report occurred, and they always took the side of the opposing person. That was very annoying, bit of bias shown from a lot of staff members in some of those discussions was the only word that I could use to describe them. This led to me having a really bad impression of them. And one of the funniest things is that sometimes I would get asked why am I trying to report another staff member when we are "supposed to be on the same team".

At one point I started to get messages from the upper administration not because of my playstyle, but because they were wondering why I was reporting staff members. Asking if I was okay, that it was unlike me, and whatnot. Had people questioning every single one of my reports plus the ones that got into those previously mentioned arguments. And even if my reports were marked as valid, they would not slay the person because apparently the RDM offense was "not that big of a deal" or "did not affect your round". Which sure, some may have been that way, but think how as a player one would feel if you report someone and someone from the upper administration told you that. (This never mattered when other staff members were reporting me apparently)

To this day, it certainly has gotten better, but I still see moments where a mod will give me a slay. Despite me, in detail, explaining every single action that led to me killing a player, but sometimes they ignore it, use technicalities, or just miss something, a clear mistake on their part, but nothing comes out of it. When I was a staff I was told that when someone is slain incorrectly , at the very least apologize and give yourself a slay. But when that happens to me, the staff just say that it was an accident, and just go on with their day. This would not bother me too much, but I must be in the top 3 most slain people in the community, and I don't want to get a ban because of "excessive slays" when a decent portion of them are mistakes that the staff team is making. And I want to believe these are mistakes.



Anyways, a lot of yapping. I probably left out some things, or don't remember all of them perfectly, I just wanted to share this bad moment that I went through as a player, and person in this community. Maybe I was in the wrong, I want to believe that was the case and I should just leave it alone, but part of me just wants to get this out. I don't want issues with anybody, but I could not keep this in my chest forever.

I share a bit of your story. Im not here to critique anyone directly.

When you are a mod here, your job is to help moderate the servers and deal with reports. You will make mistakes and you will have players testing your patience, thats how it is. The thing that can make me annoyed is when other staff joins in and starts lecturing, controlling or just unfriendly towards you.
When you make a mistake, they are never forgotten here, and there was always someone trying to get your ass chewed over the slightest mistakes. And fair enough we need rules and protocols, but imo common sense became an "admin or higher" thing. Its like you are a pawn and you are just being played however the leads feels like.

Lots of you probs know that i resigned quite abruptly, i just got out of threatment for cancers (im better now, so dont worry).

I thought about being staff again, or at least try my luck. But the more i thought about it, the more i lost interest in the community and felt like it wasnt worth it anymore.
There is so manny bisare ways you can get lectured, and you get a feeling you arent "good enough".
I lost the exitement and the drive and build the community.

I still lurk arround, but that is mostly just to chat and have fun on discord. i feel like the TTT aspect is dead to me, and im not a fan/havent taken time to play minecraft.

I might be yapping and complaining too much, but i just wanted to have my thoughts out here, now that its possible.

 

[eor]

I almost never speak on drama, this is probably the first post i have ever made in regards to drama in a ttt community, but a lot of what i have been seeing and hearing recently really saddens me. You have staff saying players have been singled out and surveilled, and former staff talking about their experiences of being targetted by this surveilance. You have people that were once very engaged with the community walking on egg shells scared to make a joke because a small group is constantly looking for something they can construe into harassment. Ive personally heard plenty of troubling things from both the members who feel they are being harassed constantly by this small group of overzealous staff and those in the staff team who are saying yes this is happening and it is a big problem. Just off the reactions alone to Ricks post it appears many agree with him. This is a community primarily of ttt players i would think the conversations and jokes that players like frosty get into wouldnt be so troublesome, some of the most entertaining players are going through 1984 levels of surveilance right now. I remember a few months ago seeing people talk about how frosty was hilarious in the veL video that had just dropped, how he carried it and was the star of it. Now he feels like he cant be active or participate in the community like he used to. Players like frosty are integral to the server they drive so much of the conversations and funny moments if they end up not playing because of this the server will be much worse off for it. That shit Trash and Lars went through is also just sad cant believe yall were treating them like that.

 

[veL]

At no point has the internal discussion been about building case files against specific users in the interest of permanently removing them from the community. If you have been told a different story you have been lied to by someone with a willful interest in escalating tensions.