Completed bjchoyce's TTT Report Against Zyp

[bjchoyce]

Your IGN

bjchoyce​

Your SteamID

76561198416824461​

Reported Player's IGN

Zyp​

Reported Player's SteamID

N/A, cannot find it as I am banned from the server​

Map(s) incident occured

N/A​

Reason for Report

I decided to hop on with some friends tonight to play some TTT. During my time on the server, I started having a vocal stim where I was quoting this specific video ( https://www.youtube.com/shorts/t5-NYqHX6eE ) and it caught on with many people. I then killed Zyp on my T round and then poked fun at him over voice, at which point he proceeded to kick me from the server. No warning, no gag, nothing - just pettily kicked me from the server during my T round, assumedly as revenge for killing him and making fun of him. I rejoined the server, and at this point many people were repeating the vocal stim from the video, at which point Zyp proceeds to ban a whopping 7 people from the server for 2 weeks, without any warning - no gag, no warning, simply nukes 20% of the server.
I have spoken with some other people on the server, and apparently this is a pattern of behavior with Zyp - he takes out his anger on people in the server with punishments and tends to get away with it due to many people not taking the time to report it. I don't think someone who lets their feelings make them lash out at other people should hold a high position like admin on this server.
I can admit my behavior was a bit rowdy - I was having fun with some friends and we were just goofing off. However, obviously Zyp took so much insult to us quoting a video that he decided to ban everyone on the server who had the nerve to repeat my vocal stim without any warning.​

Evidence and Witnessess

Time & Time Zone

11:30 PM, CST​

 

[rog the dog]

I edited the title of your thread to reflect the person you intend to report.

How this works, @Zyp will respond once he has gathered his evidence, you will likely be given an opportunity to reply, and @Noctorious will review all accounts of the situation and submitted evidence.

Thank you for taking this to the appropriate area and out of the Discord General channel.

 

[Noctorious]

I'm aware of this report. It is midnight my time and I have work in the morning. I will get to this as soon as I have some free time tomorrow after Zyp has produced evidence. For ease and not needing 7 reports, @Zyp consider this a report on behalf of all 7(?) people banned around the same time and produce sufficient evidence for all bans, not just bjchoyce's

Thank you and goodnight

 

[Zyp]

Hey there @bjchoyce lets get this all laid out for you.

This started with you talking about wanting to be around 15 year olds

Spoiler: clip of that comment

Watch bjchoycecomment | Streamable

Watch "bjchoycecomment" on Streamable.

streamable.com

, I warned the server to move on from that topic. I kicked a player for something that falls under our Disturbing Content policy, they came back and started talking about a previous ban, and they referenced a previous ban that fell under Disturbing content that was different from the first. I then again warned the server to move on from any topic involing that topic and that the next reference of that would be a ban. multiple of you started with the 1984 comments, to highlight a few

Spoiler: 1984!

1992 Space movie made the comment in this clip

Spoiler: 1992 comment

Group Trolling 1 - Clipped Garry's Mod with Medal.tv

Watch Group Trolling 1 by arcana1337 and millions of other Garry's Mod videos on Medal. #garrysmod

medal.tv

He promptly got kicked for it as we do not tolerate that comment, and consider it hateful. you proceeded to copy the moment in that clip you shared of a youtube short. You proceeded to spam that, you even got kicked for it by me being told to get a new joke and move on, you and your friends continued that despite being warned. Ksharp warned you that continuing this joke and comments would get you kicked and banned.

Spoiler: Main Video

as seen here all listed got banned for group trolling as you continued after you got kicked by me and warned by ksharp.

Sephr joined in, got banned, then went on to apologize and explained what they meant by their comments and has promised to work on the situation that led to their ban, and had their ban reduced.

Perky was a mistake, and I quickly unbanned and voided their ban as well as messaging them. They did not appeal, that was a mistake on my part.

The rest of you had through out the night instigated issues, pushed back at valid punishment on people who did things against the rules especially your friends.

Of the people remaining, that being you, jacket, captain flex, and 1992 space movie (which has been brought up to be a reference to a certain movie that I had no knowledge of until now but would have warned if not banned for) who made the insensitive comments about the Muslims as well as continuing the 1984 spam both before and after the bans went out

Spoiler: more comments

I followed through with the bans as you were warned.

I will also tag @ksharp @arcana @GimcSnooper as they were there as well if they wish to make comments on the situation as they helped with gags, warns, and kicks during the situation

 

[bjchoyce]

This started with you talking about wanting to be around 15 year olds

Hey buddy, that's a pretty insane allegation to make against me! I'd love to see some video evidence of that. I'll edit my comment once I finish reading this, but this is an insane thing to say against me without evidence and is extremely unprofessional to accuse me of without some solid video proof.

This started with you talking about wanting to be around 15 year olds

If you had ears, you would realize that my sentence includes the word "YOU," hence that this was a statement directed towards somebody else. To try and twist this and paint me in such a light is absolutely disgraceful.

1992 Space movie made the comment in this clip

... what comment??? "So now we're muslims..." then "never" 15 seconds later? are you serious? At this point I already had everyone repeating my vocal stim, and the fact that you're trying to use this unrelated person's contribution in support of your banwave is insane.

you even got kicked for it by me being told to get a new joke

Yes, you kicked me from the server after I killed you on my T round and verbally taunted you. Definitely not a childish reaction to being made fun of.

Ksharp warned you that continuing this joke and comments would get you kicked and banned.

So... I'm not sure if you're aware, but you kicked me from the server! I can't hear Ksharp give a verbal warning if I am not in the server! I hope this helps

you and your friends continued that despite being warned.

Despite being warned? you have posted zero evidence that anyone involved in this situation was warned at all (especially since your second video won't even load), except for a petty revenge kick enacted upon me. You also did not imply to ANYONE involved that continuing to quote a youtube video would result in a 2 week ban. Additionally, kicking ME and ME ALONE is not sufficient warning for the 7 people you then proceeded to ban, especially when no mutes or warnings were handed out beforehand.

pushed back at valid punishment on people

The only "pushback" i ever gave you was when someone slung the hardest R of the 21st century, only for you to ignore it to focus on kicking Spicy instead due to your personal beef/vendetta against him. Obviously, considering someone just slung a slur and you ignored it, I was going to give you pushback for it.

Perky was a mistake

Truke

Additionally, I think further evidence to your "fit of rage" that you banned all of us in is the fact that you mistakenly banned Perky. This is not easy to do - you had to go to his profile, copy his steamID, and input the command to ban him. Rather than making an informed and reasonable ban, I think rather you decided to ban everyone on my friends list in the server, along with everyone who dared to udder the words "Muslim" and "Ramadan" near you.

Overall, your conduct is embarrassing for someone who bears the title of "Administrator," and brings the validity of other staff member's positions into question if you hold the same title of them with this disgraceful performance.

 

[Zyp]

Hey buddy, that's a pretty insane allegation to make against me! I'd love to see some video evidence of that. I'll edit my comment once I finish reading this, but this is an insane thing to say against me without evidence and is extremely unprofessional to accuse me of without some solid video proof.

I have added that clip to the response it is uploading as I cut down my video to the moments i have discussed. And will do so as I get all the clips and such uploaded

 

[Noctorious]

I wrote this as a Part 1 during my lunch break. I'll post it now as my responses to bj's latest post and then write my part 2 on the content of the evidence posted.

If you had ears, you would realize that my sentence includes the word "YOU," hence that this was a statement directed towards somebody else. To try and twist this and paint me in such a light is absolutely disgraceful.

It took me about 7 times re-listening to the clip to hear the 'you' but yes you did say 'you'. It is still not a topic of discussion allowed in our community unless a serious report is being made.

.. what comment??? "So now we're muslims..." then "never" 15 seconds later? are you serious? At this point I already had everyone repeating my vocal stim, and the fact that you're trying to use this unrelated person's contribution in support of your banwave is insane.

You're indicating that you were making the joke from the youtube short well prior to the comment of "so now we're muslims"? @Zyp do you have footage from the beginning of the map to the bomb rush round that I can review to verify this?

Yes, you kicked me from the server after I killed you on my T round and verbally taunted you. Definitely not a childish reaction to being made fun of.

From the video I can see that Zyp had started the kick process via console before the round and then decided against it until you repeated the joke again, which happened to coincide with when you killed him. This indicates to me his decision was based on what you were saying not on the actions of the round. Whether a gag would have been better here I'll determine after I get more footage from the start of the map.

So... I'm not sure if you're aware, but you kicked me from the server! I can't hear Ksharp give a verbal warning if I am not in the server! I hope this helps

The kick from the server should have sufficient warning to stop repeating the joke. I do feel the kick message could have been more clear and will review that with Zyp personally. Your continuing on the topic after the kick violates Rule 2 in our TTT Rules MOTD:

2.Comply with any warning or instruction given by the staff team. This includes being asked to change topics.

Despite being warned? you have posted zero evidence that anyone involved in this situation was warned at all (especially since your second video won't even load), except for a petty revenge kick enacted upon me. You also did not imply to ANYONE involved that continuing to quote a youtube video would result in a 2 week ban. Additionally, kicking ME and ME ALONE is not sufficient warning for the 7 people you then proceeded to ban, especially when no mutes or warnings were handed out beforehand.

I have requested Zyp post evidence of any warnings given for this report. Those should be edited into his initial post or posted here today. As shown in the video Ksharp warned the server that the joke would be met with a kick or ban for the other several people that were banned.

The only "pushback" i ever gave you was when someone slung the hardest R of the 21st century, only for you to ignore it to focus on kicking Spicy instead due to your personal beef/vendetta against him. Obviously, considering someone just slung a slur and you ignored it, I was going to give you pushback for it.

I didn't hear the slur you're talking about in the recording, was that on the same map or previous?

Additionally, I think further evidence to your "fit of rage" that you banned all of us in is the fact that you mistakenly banned Perky.

Banning all related steam friends when issuing group trolling bans was sometimes done until within the past month we put a stop to it. Zyp banning Perky wasn't a mistake of accidentally clicking the name but him making an assumption that they were being an issue as well as their friends. From what I've been shown by another mod in DMs this was pointed out to Zyp and swiftly corrected.

 

[bjchoyce]

I appreciate your in-depth response to this situation. However, there are a few important notes I would like to add.

It is still not a topic of discussion allowed in our community unless a serious report is being made

I definitely agree the topic is taboo, and I believe the reason I made the comment had to do with someone else saying something along the lines of "This man's here to meet a 15 year old girl" which I'm told has been a joke on the server for the past few days. While I've heard from other players that staff have been telling people to stop making those jokes, this was within my first 10 minutes or so on the server and was not aware of the history of the joke.

From the video I can see that Zyp had started the kick process via console

Yes, once the video processed and uploaded that was evident. Simply a case of unfortunate timing that made it appear that way to me, so I apologize for presenting that narrative prior to seeing Zyp's perspective.

Whether a gag would have been better here

I've had someone reach out to me with protocol for "spam" situations, which I believe this situation would fall under. It can clearly be seen that staff are told to wait until the third infraction to even issue a ban, much less a 2 week one. Since I am not staff myself, I can't say how strictly these are to be followed, but it does seem a little ridiculous that the situation was escalated to the level it was without proper warnings being issued.

As shown in the video Ksharp warned the server that the joke would be met with a kick or ban for the other several people that were banned

I would like to reiterate - given the circumstances of my initial kick, I was unable to hear this verbal warning, and the wording of my kick did not properly convey the gravity of how imperative it was that this joke must stop.

I didn't hear the slur you're talking about in the recording, was that on the same map or previous?

This wasn't present in the recording, but it occurred during the Ship map. Probably about 15 minutes after I joined, someone ripped a devious hard R, and while I am unsure of their current status, at the time they hadn't gotten muted/kicked. However, the larger problem to many people in the server at the time, which I joined in on ridiculing Zyp for, was that instead of addressing the slur, Zyp seemingly moved on from it to kick Spicy (someone he has a history of beefing with) rather than looking to ban the person who said the slur. This was the only "pushback" I can think of giving, other than a few lighthearted "1984" jokes that literally everyone in the server makes whenever staff do anything.

I've definitely given the entire situation some thought, and I can see how Zyp could have initially interpreted my verbal stim as racially motivated, given that he either only noticed it during the event round or I simply started it right around that time. Since I don't record my gameplay we'll just have to see if Zyp has the previous recordings. However, I think the fact that it continued well past the event round should have made it clear that the two were not related.

Anyways I will wait for your second response and Zyp's responses to comment any further as I don't think this can be resolved until then.

 

[Noctorious]

I was waiting for Zyp to post more but I have been informed he is under the weather and may take a couple days to provide the requested evidence of warnings and such. I prefer if reports and appeals are handled swiftly so I'm going to pass a judgement on this.

First a couple points based on your most recent post:

I've had someone reach out to me with protocol for "spam" situations, which I believe this situation would fall under. It can clearly be seen that staff are told to wait until the third infraction to even issue a ban, much less a 2 week one. Since I am not staff myself, I can't say how strictly these are to be followed, but it does seem a little ridiculous that the situation was escalated to the level it was without proper warnings being issued.

While what you posted is the standard protocol, as an admin Zyp has the ability to use Admin Discretion to accelerate or jump protocol in the interest of events that call for quicker or more extreme responses. This comes with the added responsibility of having to justify the use if it is reported or brought into question. From what I understand, Zyp was seeing the repeated use of the word Muslim as racially insensitive and was using more of a Harassment protocol which starts with either a kick or a warn.


On the topic of Admin Discretion, Group Trolling is an admin+ only ban and is used in cases where an entire group of players is seen as acting in malicious conduct together. Group Trolling is generally a 2 week or 4 week ban.

I would like to reiterate - given the circumstances of my initial kick, I was unable to hear this verbal warning, and the wording of my kick did not properly convey the gravity of how imperative it was that this joke must stop.

Yes, I agree you couldn't hear the warning, my comment was directed at your comment that your kick was not sufficient warning for the other players banned. I was pointing out that they received their own verbal warning while you weren't in the server.

This wasn't present in the recording, but it occurred during the Ship map. Probably about 15 minutes after I joined, someone ripped a devious hard R, and while I am unsure of their current status, at the time they hadn't gotten muted/kicked. However, the larger problem to many people in the server at the time, which I joined in on ridiculing Zyp for, was that instead of addressing the slur, Zyp seemingly moved on from it to kick Spicy (someone he has a history of beefing with) rather than looking to ban the person who said the slur. This was the only "pushback" I can think of giving, other than a few lighthearted "1984" jokes that literally everyone in the server makes whenever staff do anything.

Unfortunately without a recording there isn't much I can comment on this. I can understand the frustration of staff seeming to prioritize one person or thing over another, whether or not the staff are doing it intentionally. And from a staff side I know that it can sometimes be too easy to accidentally give that impression.

Conclusion

Overall, I'm not happy with how both sides of this report acted. I think Zyp choosing harassment or racial insensitivity over mic spam wasn't a good call, and I also think getting kicked for a joke and coming back to do it more was also not a good call. I do think overall from what I've heard and seen that the group trolling ban did end up being warranted, a group of friends were ignoring the staff when told to change subject or stop and some were directly harassing the staff. I also think that there were better steps and warnings that could have been taken before issuing the ban that may or may not have de-escalated or solved the situation.

There are 2 actions that I'm going to take:
1) When Zyp is feeling better I am going to personally meet with him to walk through the report, what happened, and coach him on what he could have done better and what he will do better in the future.
2) EDIT: After discussion with fellow upper staff I have changed my decision to a full unban of the players banned. BUT for future reference per rule 2 mentioned above if a staff member asks for you to change subject you need to comply in the moment. If you disagree with the reason as to why they are asking you to change subject you can contact a higher staff to either help or direct you to their direct superior, or you can always DM me directly


I will leave the thread unlocked for 24 hours if @bjchoyce would like a final response, otherwise I will close it and you can message me directly either here or on discord