Racist Imagery on Dolls.

Meatwad420

Meatwad420

Member
I don't want to come across as a woke asshole but...

There is racist disgusting imagery in the map dolls.​
RpfvczN.jpeg

There is high demand for this map to be voted in. And I understand now why. What's worse is that I bravely called out this horrible feature of the map. And I received these messages in my inbox.
E4sGKE7.png

It's clear this map is a harbor for racists. And I'm the dock worker that's going to put an end to this.

MY SOLUTION???????
It's clear the racist imagery is a texture and thus could easily be replaced with a NON-RACIST texture. So I believe the texture should be replaced by this image that supports an anti-racist message and is safe and friendly.
wJ7jE3Y.png
 
CelDamage said:
There are other versions of dolls that don't have it and I am fairly certain they are more expansive too with extra vents
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On our previous server we had the version with the extra vents, which I thought was fun. I'm not sure I'd want to play that version every time though, it just doesn't have the same flow or tactical positions as the original.
 
Firstly, thanks for including me in your screenshot really appreciate that. I remember when you called this out in the server and I was disgusted by the reaction of the players that didn't care and even laughed or supported this. This map needs to be removed immediately.
 
There are several maps that have things like this, many more well hidden or not as blatant to those who don't recognize a specific dogwhistle. It's just sad that these types of mapmakers just need to insert their hate into things to feel good about themselves. One other one I know off the top of my head is ttt_pelicantown from stardew valley if that map were to ever be considered, don't. (I mean it sucks anyways, there's no props)
 
Pomegranate said:
Firstly, thanks for including me in your screenshot really appreciate that. I remember when you called this out in the server and I was disgusted by the reaction of the players that didn't care and even laughed or supported this. This map needs to be removed immediately.
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What’s next, are you gonna go after our statues too?
 
I can't tell to what level people ironic people are being or if it's not at all tbh, I'm too autistic.

But honestly, I just don't think it's a big deal. That shit was what genuinely existed on iconography of the time, and I would wager the original doll's maker was of the era that could poke into grandma's old forgotten cupboards and find exactly that. I dunno. I think the fact that 90% of players haven't noticed or cared before is a reason not to give it too much weight now. It's not being aggrandized in any way, and it makes logical sense to be there given the other decorations.

Please note I'm not trying to defend racist iconography or say this isn't racist, it's just that it is literally a product of its time being used as decoration in a closet with items of that time. Trolls are going to troll and we can just ban them, but the seriousness we seem to be treating this is not equivalent to the seriousness of the offense. This shit existed. This context is an appropriate example of its existence- Literally tucked in a corner and forgotten. It obviously doesn't need to exist in a G-mod map, but at the same time, the all-or-nothing attitude here doesn't seem reasonable. History is nuanced and unpleasant, and condemning something like this or someone who likes themes like this (Not counting the trolls or active/targeted racism) for having unpleasant elements seems more like erasure of that history than actual anti-racism.
 
CelDamage said:
There are several maps that have things like this, many more well hidden or not as blatant to those who don't recognize a specific dogwhistle. It's just sad that these types of mapmakers just need to insert their hate into things to feel good about themselves. One other one I know off the top of my head is ttt_pelicantown from stardew valley if that map were to ever be considered, don't. (I mean it sucks anyways, there's no props)
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yeah man it is sad

there were good people on both sides man,
 
Bad Cat said:
I can't tell to what level people ironic people are being or if it's not at all tbh, I'm too autistic.

But honestly, I just don't think it's a big deal. That shit was what genuinely existed on iconography of the time, and I would wager the original doll's maker was of the era that could poke into grandma's old forgotten cupboards and find exactly that. I dunno. I think the fact that 90% of players haven't noticed or cared before is a reason not to give it too much weight now. It's not being aggrandized in any way, and it makes logical sense to be there given the other decorations.

Please note I'm not trying to defend racist iconography or say this isn't racist, it's just that it is literally a product of its time being used as decoration in a closet with items of that time. Trolls are going to troll and we can just ban them, but the seriousness we seem to be treating this is not equivalent to the seriousness of the offense. This shit existed. This context is an appropriate example of its existence- Literally tucked in a corner and forgotten. It obviously doesn't need to exist in a G-mod map, but at the same time, the all-or-nothing attitude here doesn't seem reasonable. History is nuanced and unpleasant, and condemning something like this or someone who likes themes like this (Not counting the trolls or active/targeted racism) for having unpleasant elements seems more like erasure of that history than actual anti-racism.
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Was Meatwad being serious when he made this suggestion? Hard to say, probably not lol. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still blackface. There is no context in which blackface is not racist, except for in learning environments such as a classroom or museum. I imagine the conversation would be much different if instead the box had the n word on it. And that's the point of stuff like blackface, to be able to make fun of and dehumanize black people without saying it openly. I'm not going to assume your race or ethnicity, but as a white person myself I know that stuff like this can seem rather trivial since we've never experienced racism like people of color have. If my options are either remove an easily replaced texture or keep offensive, racist imagery in the name of laziness, then I'm gonna have to go with option 1.

And regardless, I want this community to be welcoming to people of all creeds. If the obviously racist imagery makes people feel uncomfortable, we should remove it. I can't imagine it would be very hard to do so.
 
titan said:
yeah man it is sad

there were good people on both sides man,
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Listen, when I first commented I didn't realize that this post was partially satire and partially serious. The last few communities I was part of this thread probably would've been removed immediately and half the participants punished. That said, I don't agree with that and feel those communities were way too over-sensitive and really lacked the sense of satire and dark humor that most Gmod communities should have.

So coming from communities like that, I am happy that this one is far more laid back. That said, obviously a thread like this is kind of like whiplash to me given the subject matter lmao


in all seriousness tho I do agree with Poke that these types of images are easily removed / maps replaced.

If people are confused what I mean by pelicantown, there's a pixel hitler doing the salute on the map somewhere if I recall
 
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pokeben said:
Was Meatwad being serious when he made this suggestion? Hard to say, probably not lol. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still blackface. There is no context in which blackface is not racist, except for in learning environments such as a classroom or museum. I imagine the conversation would be much different if instead the box had the n word on it. And that's the point of stuff like blackface, to be able to make fun of and dehumanize black people without saying it openly. I'm not going to assume your race or ethnicity, but as a white person myself I know that stuff like this can seem rather trivial since we've never experienced racism like people of color have. If my options are either remove an easily replaced texture or keep offensive, racist imagery in the name of laziness, then I'm gonna have to go with option 1.

And regardless, I want this community to be welcoming to people of all creeds. If the obviously racist imagery makes people feel uncomfortable, we should remove it. I can't imagine it would be very hard to do so.
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Like, not to turn this into a reddit debate but:


It is just a decoration.


It's not a statue. It doesn't mean or represent anything. It is an accurate depiction of artwork that was used, utilized in an accurate way. At face-value context it is the lowest form of racism just a step above going 'Racism exists'- At least in my head. Blackface is also something completely different. This is 'just' a caricature of a black person utilizing the stereotypes of the time. It is literally a racist decoration shoved into the back of a closet and forgotten about.

Honestly, I don't really care if Dolls gets removed or not, I don't particularly enjoy the map. But removing it because of this imagery and condemning people for liking the map are both gross overreaches. We should not be afraid to acknowledge that stuff like this exists. There is nothing particularly wrong with enjoying a theme that includes something racist if you understand the context. Sometimes it's edginess for the sake of edginess, sometime it's racism for the sake of racism, and every situation needs to be judged. But it's sometimes it's just there. Existing as it exists. It's not real life, it's fantasy, so treating it as something more than that is unproductive. You should be uncomfortable- It happened. This is what racism looked like in the past.

I'm probably taking it way too seriously for a Gmod server, it's just that this attitude really bothers me. Not every little thing should be treated as an issue. Inclusivity doesn't mean acting like racism and bigotry doesn't exist. And honestly I would wager that most, if not all, of the people here complaining about it are white- Which does matter. We *are* welcoming to all creeds, and acting like we're not because a map-maker somewhere put in something that ranges from an edgy dog-whistle to a sincere attempt at dating the 'lore' of the map is a bogus and divisive attitude that helps no-one and nothing.
 
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