The Problem With Giant's Lair..

[Siddo]

lots of words go here

Thank you for taking the time to write this out and make this post - and a big thank you to the rest of you for chiming in as well. While it is a bit of a shame that it had to come to this kind of post to resolve things, I think it's a great impetus to really course correct and get us as a community to a better spot.

To a degree, you echo some of my own thoughts and concerns. As some of you may know, I resigned from admin a few months back - and the sick culture you highlight aspects of had a part to play in that. However, in my view, I don't think it's a recent change. We've had some trends along these lines since before the servers launched. Everything miniscule and beneath notice on its own. But each individual thing, insignificant or minor at first, has kept compounding on itself. Good intentions going awry, slight mishaps and mistakes getting blown out of proportion, and the way people speak with - and for that matter, about - each other shifting gradually but surely toward a more mean, condescending, and or outright antagonistic manner. And staffing/moderation has contributed to that in a big way. Such as targeting or people having a gripe with specific people and bringing them up in staff discussions frequently.

I know it's something the leadership has discussed on multiple occasions. There's a lot to unravel in this web and I think a lot of what leadership *could* say will feel unsatisfying or alienating to some. I don't think there's a right answer to the underlying frustrations you voice here, because no single thing said can undo that damage.
Had it been handled right and in a timely manner, it wouldn't have gotten this far. But at this point, "getting it right" feels like a blurry image at best. I certainly don't have a concrete, actionable idea for it.
Which makes it crucial that alongside words, we figure out the actions needed to start mending fences and fixing what has gone lopsided.

So for my own sake and to hopefully help get the community back on track toward being the fun and comfy hangout it should be - that it was created to be:
What would you (all, not just Rick) suggest be done, changed, or considered going forward?

Ideally answer without getting abstract. The best thing you can give the leadership right now is concrete and realistic things that you could point to and go "do this" or "avoid doing this".
There's *some* elements of it here in the many posts, like the don't target, don't overscrutinize, etc. This is both a cultural thing within the community/staff team/leadership. And a failure on individual coaching of staff members in how to go about things in the moment. So far, attemps to rectify it after the fact have just fostered more anger and unease.
For instance, changes have been made to protocols and rules as a result of repeated back and forth discussions on leniency VS tolerance VS decisive action against people. Protocols and what falls within and without the "acceptable" range of images, jokes, memes, etc.
The floundering, I think, contributes to making things just kinda suck. And as much as I loathe it, I've been a part of things getting to where they are, 'cause I can be stubborn and focus on the abstract (overall rules), instead of getting the specific (actual thing that happened) right. And I want to be a part of fixing it. So whether it's personal Siddo feedback or generally applicable feedback for leadership/staff/anyone/everyone, I'd gladly welcome whatever feedback you (all) have that I - and we - can actually translate into practice.

The sheer turn-out for this post, to me, shows how much a lot of us care about this place and want it to be a success and a good place to hang. So please, anything at all you have would be greatly appreciated <3

 

[rog the dog]

I like that this thread was made, don't like that it had to be. I enjoy having open discussions about things and I am going to attempt to give my perspective on different things people have said, I think there's some validity to some concerns, and I am going to be engaging with all of you in good faith here, especially those who may not be my biggest fan

Hey everyone,​

I’m going to be direct about this because it’s been building for a while. There is a culture issue with staff on this server, and it’s getting worse over time. This isn’t about every staff member. There are genuinely good people here. That’s part of what makes this frustrating. But there is a specific group that continues to push things in a certain direction, and nothing meaningful is being done to check it.


What I’ve been seeing isn’t random. There’s a pattern. Certain staff members seem to decide they don’t like someone, and from that point forward, everything that person does starts getting picked apart. Things that would normally be ignored or brushed off suddenly become problems. I’ve seen conversations where logs and messages are being combed through, not to determine whether something clearly broke a rule, but to figure out whether it can be framed that way. Once moderation starts operating like that, it stops feeling fair.

Depending on who you ask I may be among that certain group trying to push things in a certain direction, but I can agree with you there are times where there have been actions taken that are overly analytical. The example you have given here where people have had conversations where logs, messages, whatever have been combed through to figure out if it can be framed that someone broke a rule? I don't entirely agree with that characterization of what those staff members were doing, I believe this is referencing that "vibe audit" meme that's being circled around our space. To give as much context to what this was as possible, there was a wide net being cast by the people involved in that discussion on purpose, and it was around the time Jabba was directing / having conversations with us about "what we do and do not want to allow in discord". The people you mentioned combed through said messages, and after that there was supposed to be identification of "okay, of everything, what REALLY is the problem?" It was meant to just be "Hey yall, we want to clarify this is the kind of shit we don't want posted, we're gonna crack down on it, thanks".

Now, I don't personally agree that was the best way to handle wanting to reset expectations around what can and cannot be said in Discord and I definitely think we, me included, dropped the ball on properly communicating what we were and are trying to do here. I think the order of operations was off or wasn't done properly. Essentially all we had to do was "Hey, femoid / moid posting isn't gonna be allowed anymore, we don't want any messages or references to kill all X, we don't want racism, etc." I think just saying that and then maybe messaging the people that make those jokes like "Hey, this isn't gonna be allowed anymore from anyone, I know you joke around like that, but if you do in the future you'll probably get yourself in trouble". I think we did the reverse and instead looked for users as examples of behavior we didn't want and based it off of that, which honestly probably feels pretty shitty. I do sincerely apologize and do not want anyone, even the people who aren't fans of me or decisions I make or how I handle things, to feel targeted. Jabba isn't wrong when he says we in leadership are targeting behavior, not people. At the very least this is my intention and I do believe him when he says it is his.

It should be as simple as don't post that stuff in Discord, and follow the other written rules, and you'll be fine. But also, there are times where a certain image or gif or whatever falls under a label like Disturbing Content to a staff member that someone may not agree with, and I do think it's important that especially if you aren't on the best of terms with someone to ask yourself "would I have an issue with anyone else posting this?" before any action is taken.

From a player perspective, this kind of environment changes how people behave. You start second guessing what you say, not because you’re worried about breaking rules, but because you don’t know what might get taken out of context later or who might already have an issue with you. It stops feeling like a place where rules are applied fairly and starts feeling like certain people have more influence over how situations are interpreted. Situations like this don’t continue unless they’re allowed to. Whether it’s being ignored or just not addressed properly, the outcome is the same. A small group ends up having a disproportionate amount of influence over how things are handled, and that shapes the overall culture of the server.


At some point, this needs to be addressed directly. There needs to be consistency in how rules are applied. Staff should be held to the same standards as everyone else, if not higher. There also needs to be a clear distinction between moderating behavior and targeting individuals, because right now that line feels increasingly blurred. There are a lot of good people on this server, which is why this is frustrating to watch. But when moderation starts to feel selective and personal, it affects the entire experience. It creates an environment that people don’t want to stay in long term.


If the goal is to actually grow this community, this kind of environment is going to hold it back. People don’t stick around in places where they feel watched, singled out, or treated inconsistently. They either leave quietly or disengage over time. I want to see this server grow. There’s enough here for it to be something genuinely strong. But that’s not going to happen if this kind of behavior continues to be encouraged or ignored.

That alone should be a red flag. When people feel like speaking up is going to put a target on them, that’s not a healthy community. That’s exactly the kind of environment this post is calling out. At that point, the problem isn’t just the behavior itself. It’s the fact that people feel like they can’t even talk about it without risking consequences.

I don't think we should do, or have any plans to, do any more large scale audits like that of people's history. It was an approach that was had that "worked", or rather functioned, sure. However, something better as I previously mentioned could have also worked. Consistency around how rules are applied is brought up by you here and a couple of people after, and I'll do my personal best to try and be consistent and look out for instances of other's not being consistent, but if it does happen, and you or anyone else aren't comfortable still bringing it up privately, bring it up publicly in a thread in staff discussion or in general discussion depending on what makes sense.


I am unsure of the secondary portion of people speaking up feeling like a target will be put on them, but with as many disagreements and arguments are had at the staff level, there's never any repercussions for outright speaking your mind and even the people who disagree frequently are valued members of the team. At the member level we have attempted to divulge ways for you guys to speak your mind without fear of anyone knowing who you are to avoid bias in what we are reading, those surveys are valuable for that, but sure in an ideal scenario those same things are able to be said without anonymity.


@Frosty this relates to some of what you brought up - hardly the point, but doing a Trump impersonation is fine, it's not against the rules, granted nothing that was said was against the rules. I can see how from your perspective if someone started doing one 30 minutes later and was saying similar stuff and it wasn't moderated how that would be annoying. There are some different and arguably more strict guidelines than when you first joined for the Discord server, that much is true, but for the server we largely are still pretty lenient and should not be moderating stuff like that. In reference to someone sitting and recording general VC and not interacting with you guys and watching you guys specifically, I don't think that's something we should be doing either and I'm sorry it felt like that, but genuinely that definitely goes against the spirit of what we are trying to do if that's what happened. I obviously wasn't there and if it was awhile ago I hope it was addressed in some way.

COI's are done by Leadership at the Leadership level, only we can approve those to be handed out and are reserved for people we know aren't here to contribute in a positive way at all or have contributed in an especially negative fashion or did some gsu level stuff. You broke some discord rules, others you are friends with broke some discord rules, sure. However, we genuinely aren't building a case against you, or proper, or whoever. We just genuinely want to change the Discord interaction to be a more positive enviornment free of the things that I believe were made clear to you all, and if it still is not clear, or you feel like you need clarification on something or something feels unfair, ask me or tell me here or anywhere, I am more than happy to have this discussion.


@YoAmTrash I read your post and I know what you went through man - I honestly find myself agreeing with you. I don't think the level of scrutiny for how you played the game was appropriate and having to respond to a discord dm about a certain kill or report every day would make me quit too. I wasn't in a position to directly handle your situation at the time, but I am sorry you felt like you couldn't challenge or were discouraged from reporting your peers. I valued you extensively as a Staff Member but I even more value you as a community member and want you to know that if the human element is missing from interacting on the TTT server, that sucks, and it should be corrected. I know if I false slayed you I would at the very minimum say sorry and probably slay myself because you know eye for an eye. If that's missing I'll make sure people know that it's okay to make mistakes and argue incorrectly, but only if you earnestly admit when you were wrong and apologize for it.

I think this comment here made me realize that there's probably two distinctive issues here which is probably what makes this conversation more difficult. In the "vibe audit" there were absolutely comments that we brought forward that were an issue- but frankly, for the most part it actually worked. Most of the people in that have been avoiding the behavior specifically that they were asked to stop, maybe with a couple slips here or there, but it is vastly different than it was preaudit. Despite this, the constant nit-picking has frankly driven people away. I've for the most part have cut my interaction with the community. Last night, I had two other personal discords that I am personally in that I saw that were made specifically because they felt more comfortable interacting there than in GL. They were talking like friends, playing games, and doing everything that used to happen on GL. But they feel like they can't. I think what's most telling to me here is that the same people that were hanging out in the community before that are missing, are still around. They're just not around at GL. And this includes not only community members, but staff members as well in all ranks.

I'm going to give a specific example, that I probably shouldn't know about but I think gets the point across. Last night, a spammer joined the discord, and dropped a funny copy/pasta style spam message. 6 people were having a hilarious time with it, joking around, and it lasted about 15 minutes or so? In staff channels, this got presented as a problem that needed to be a addressed. Friends having fun with each other, for a short burst of a time just laughing between each other... was a problem. And shoutbox was declared especially bad that night.

I guess my point in my post here is that I think your post missed some a lot of the points rick is getting at here, but I understand why. Despite that, I think this is a solvable problem that would require just some definition of what y'all really want in a community. If posting like that really is a problem to y'all, say it. It would be different than how both SGM and AHG approached communities, but hey, GL is different and has a different goal. The problem is now, is that no one seems to want to be upfront about it, or it seems like maybe that goal for what they want the community to look like is. That's okay too. But where the problem is that in figuring that out, there's group of people here that feels like they're being targeted while y'all try to work that out. I didn't include Crescent when I said that it would be different- because honestly, we had a different approach there. We literally banned people because we just didn't want them there. They didn't match the vibe of the community, so we just didn't deal with it. I'm not sure if that's the solution here, but at least it was honest and upfront which is what's being asked of here.

Saved this one for last - I am very happy that people have connected through Giant's lair and made new friends, different friend groups, or reignited interest in old ones. I am glad that people are interacting with each other still that once interacted in here. I am obviously less glad that interaction is no longer happening here. I can say for sure, no, we don't have any interest in banning anyone right now just because we don't like them or want them here. There is currently nobody on Leaderships radar who we have had a conversation even remotely close to "we may need to perma ban this person soon". The conversations have absolutely been centered around "Is this behavior something we want in the server?" in referencing discord moderation. Now whether or not people agree with a certain thing being allowed or disallowed, I'm sure there's thoughts and feelings about that, and I don't personally agree with every single thing we allow or disallow either but I do follow it.

I wasn't on Discord last night but yeah, if some dude named Benjamin joined the Discord and started crypto spamming / scamming or whatever? I would also think that's hilarious if my friends were around to joke about it, I really don't think any of them did anything wrong there assuming nothing has been deleted. I think this may be an example of us looking too deep into something that doesn't need to be looked into for sure because I am looking at it right now, there's nothing here that I would say we should care about. You guys should feel free and happy to joke about a scammer named Benjamin or whatever like you're right, who cares. That's a problem that it was MADE to be a problem.


@veL that ban was fucking dumb, I'm glad we apologized for that. Waffle being the person who got banned wasn't considered there it was just us being pretty stupid about an image.


Siddo stole the words from my mouth, but yeah, call shit out, I responded to what's been already brought up, and I have some things to address with others, some behavior to adjust myself, but know that I personally am listening and watching this thread and appreciate all the feedback.

 

[Sticky Joe]

What would you (all, not just Rick) suggest be done, changed, or considered going forward?

I will probably come back and update my post with more suggestions instead of doing them all at once and being at this keyboard for hours, But the first thing i suggest is for Discretion to stop being used as an all powerful cheat to ban players who have not committed a bannable offense or as a way to ban players for much longer then what their offense would demand. I've also seen Discretion bans with reduced sentences and while staff will act like they reduced it out of the kindness of their hearts its plain to see they are focusing on stacking offenses onto a player who will definitely be getting a nasty sentence on any consecutive bans. I feel like Discretion instead of being used as a way to thwart loopholing it has seen more use as a way to ban many players that the staff wanted to knock down a peg but couldn't nail them for the main behavior that they disapprove of.

 

[Noctorious]

What would you (all, not just Rick) suggest be done, changed, or considered going forward?

This

 

[proper]

I find it funny that the entire basis of punishments going forward for people like myself, Frosty, Beaker, Memelord, etc. (not even addressing the fact that we are inexplicably being grouped as some sort of troll group) is the fact that we were "vibe audited" and "warned" accordingly. This warning was actually just a list of rules we were deemed to have broken with no specific examples or situations that were pointed to whatsoever, and any information I may be able to point to that clarifies that for me is literally just through assumptions and whispers. Yet, it is being stated that I am "knowingly" doing something wrong, and I am "getting off" on breaking the rules and pushing the limits by posting something I found funny.

How can you at all justify knowing my intent to begin with, let alone justify that I have BAD intent when the only warning I have to go off of is this?

proper
We have been reviewing a lot of your recent messaging in Giant's Lair. The consensus is there's a lot of worrying content.

• Calls for Violence / Death
• Hateful Conduct
• Harassment
• Inappropriate Israel Posts
• Incel Slang Spam

We need to see a course correction from you proper. Beyond our rules some of your posts break Discord's Terms of Service.
Consider how your content should contribute to making the conversation welcoming to everyone.
The community is supposed to be for everyone, and your actions lately have not contributed to that goal.

Sure, this is strongly worded and there's even a list of offenses! Great. What the fuck am I supposed to do with that? What did I specifically do to "harass" someone? What about hateful conduct? I was warned for using the "incel slang" words and, crazy concept, I actually stopped using it. I wonder if that means anything.

I'll also save you the energy of typing this out: no, I am not going to respond to a DM like this. Not from Jabba, especially, who has a very clearly outlined history of being dishonest and biased against my friends that he evidently groups me in with as a bad person, bad actor, whatever the fuck. Banning waffle for CSAM, accusing my friend of "faking" being trans and comparing her to a GSU'd individual, yeah let me try to engage in genuine discussion with this guy behind closed doors. No, of course I'm not gonna fucking ask. I see how he talks about me. That's a completely pointless endeavour.

Instead, I opted to tone it down and chill out. Then, 2 days ago, an advisor that represents the staff team responds to a joke I posted saying that gentrification is good actually and W white people for gentrifying heaven. I don't even bother engaging with this obvious bait, something he himself admitted was bait in the same conversation, but posting a meme photo of Draymond Green is somehow calling for the extermination of an entire race - my race? What about the fact that this person has routinely gone out of his way to harass myself and my friends? Not to mention the weird, random DM he sent me "apologizing" for spending months taking jabs at me in public channels because he can't stand to watch me call myself a nice, friendly person. Some apology, might I add, considering I know and he knows that he didn't mean a word of it. What's the point? Why are you bothering me with this shit? At what point is this targeted harassment?

It doesn't fucking matter if you think I'm a bad person, I deserve to be treated with the same respect and be sent through the same channels as any other member of the community. Yes, this does mean I don't think I am magically immune to any punishments; I know that I am/was due at minimum a warning for SOME of the shit I've said, if not worse punishment. I am not here to defend every single action I've taken, but why the hell am I being painted as a racist incel anti-semite behind closed doors and then being gaslit about it in my own fucking DMs by the same people who despise me?

Yeah sure, it's being said in staff channels, those are private and not meant for my eyes. Please don't sit there and pretend, though, that A. that is not influencing your treatment of me, and B. that is not influencing fellow staff members' opinions and treatment of me.

I am well aware that I am not universally loved, and I am not asking for any special treatment. I literally never have, and I never will. I welcome a vibes-based COI even, if that's what is deemed necessary (I AM ALSO WELL AWARE THIS IS NOT BEING DISCUSSED) because I can tell that I am not wanted in this community by the people running it, no matter what kind of PR posts are put here in this thread. You cannot ignore the fact that this kind of conduct will not magically cease as soon as I'm gone, and as soon as Frosty or Beaker or whoever the fuck is in my secretive troll clique today is gone too. This is not healthy and it will only harm your community if you continue to feed the staff echo chamber.

I am a person. If I offend you, if I say something that upsets you or bothers you, or if you think I'm upset with you or my tone is off, just fucking say something PLEASE. I am not going to attack you or belittle you for just fucking talking to me. When I find out about character assassinations behind my back, yes I am going to mock that, because why are you not just talking to me? Why are we sitting there for hours talking about my INTENT and how there is just no fathomable scenario in which I am not being a bad person? I care about people. I have empathy. I have feelings. I love a lot of people in this community, and I am extremely bitter and sad that I don't get to enjoy this community to the extent I want to.

When I was staff before, I was on "good" behavior. I had to be to some degree to get staff, right? Why is it that even then, when i had no "beef" or issues in the community, I was STILL being shit talked behind my back by fellow staff? Someone I genuinely, wholeheartedly believed I was friends with. This person harassed me out of the community because I wanted my pronouns to be respected. Yes, that is literally the only reason. I don't like being referred to with they/them pronouns if I can help it. That is it. Why the fuck was i labelled a transphobe and completely ignored when I tried to address this directly? Why is it that nothing ever came of that situation?

If I am treated that way even when I am in good standing in the community, why the fuck would I bother trying to figure out what I'm specifically doing wrong in Jabba's eyes? Why would I care? Nothing I do or say matters, because I will still be treated like shit. So whatever man.




Also stop trying to make this about me and Frosty Jabba. You can get rid of both of us if you want to, you'd still have a massive issue on your hands. It's not just us. And stop grouping me in with Memelord please, you literally watched him tell me I love to kill kids because I've had 2 abortions in the past. How fucking disingenuous.

 

[Noctorious]

I've also seen Discretion bans with reduced sentences and while staff will act like they reduced it out of the kindness of their hearts its plain to see they are focusing on stacking offenses onto a player who will definitely be getting a nasty sentence on any consecutive bans.

Last time I used discretion to reduce a ban it reduced a mass RDM ban in half, and I never had to ban that player for mass RDM again. Which was the goal of the reduction, show I believe in them to do better so they can come back sooner and they do. What you're saying is you believe staff are trying to get players back on sooner so they can ban them again faster and for longer?

 

[Siddo]

I will probably come back and update my post with more suggestions instead of doing them all at once and being at this keyboard for hours, But the first thing i suggest is for Discretion to stop being used as an all powerful cheat to ban players who have not committed a bannable offense or as a way to ban players for much longer then what their offense would demand. I've also seen Discretion bans with reduced sentences and while staff will act like they reduced it out of the kindness of their hearts its plain to see they are focusing on stacking offenses onto a player who will definitely be getting a nasty sentence on any consecutive bans. I feel like Discretion instead of being used as a way to thwart loopholing it has seen more use as a way to ban many players that the staff wanted to knock down a peg but couldn't nail them for the main behavior that they disapprove of.

Thank you for taking the time, I'll check back on your posts when I can to see if you've added in more things <3
Speaking as a former admin, the way I view discretion is as a tool to tailor the rules to the circumstance. For instance if some noob joins and bumbles their way into a mass RDM but they genuinely seem like they're trying to learn, I'd choose to use discretion to slay, rather than ban, and try to guide them into the game and the rules.
Similarly, if a long-time player is acting unusual or off, discretion is a good way to show lenience for their general good standing and not drop the fattest ban possible for a goblin mode episode.
Inversely, I'd equally use discretion to apply harsher bans where someone is very clearly acting in a malicious way where the rules don't adequately cover how much of a menace they're managing to be.

I think that's where discretion serves the community. If the use of discretion feels more like a way to give smol bans to more quickly ramp up to big bans, that's - in my view - a misapplication of discretion. If so, it would definitely be good to have a conversation surrounding the use of discretion and making sure we're using that to serve the community, to make things more fun and chill. Rather than stifling <3

I find it funny that the entire basis of punishments going forward for people like myself, Frosty, Beaker, Memelord, etc. (not even addressing the fact that we are inexplicably being grouped as some sort of troll group) is the fact that we were "vibe audited" and "warned" accordingly. This warning was actually just a list of rules we were deemed to have broken with no specific examples or situations that were pointed to whatsoever, and any information I may be able to point to that clarifies that for me is literally just through assumptions and whispers. Yet, it is being stated that I am "knowingly" doing something wrong, and I am "getting off" on breaking the rules and pushing the limits by posting something I found funny.

How can you at all justify knowing my intent to begin with, let alone justify that I have BAD intent when the only warning I have to go off of is this?

proper
We have been reviewing a lot of your recent messaging in Giant's Lair. The consensus is there's a lot of worrying content.

• Calls for Violence / Death
• Hateful Conduct
• Harassment
• Inappropriate Israel Posts
• Incel Slang Spam

We need to see a course correction from you proper. Beyond our rules some of your posts break Discord's Terms of Service.
Consider how your content should contribute to making the conversation welcoming to everyone.
The community is supposed to be for everyone, and your actions lately have not contributed to that goal.

Sure, this is strongly worded and there's even a list of offenses! Great. What the fuck am I supposed to do with that? What did I specifically do to "harass" someone? What about hateful conduct? I was warned for using the "incel slang" words and, crazy concept, I actually stopped using it. I wonder if that means anything.

I'll also save you the energy of typing this out: no, I am not going to respond to a DM like this. Not from Jabba, especially, who has a very clearly outlined history of being dishonest and biased against my friends that he evidently groups me in with as a bad person, bad actor, whatever the fuck. Banning waffle for CSAM, accusing my friend of "faking" being trans and comparing her to a GSU'd individual, yeah let me try to engage in genuine discussion with this guy behind closed doors. No, of course I'm not gonna fucking ask. I see how he talks about me. That's a completely pointless endeavour.

Instead, I opted to tone it down and chill out. Then, 2 days ago, an advisor that represents the staff team responds to a joke I posted saying that gentrification is good actually and W white people for gentrifying heaven. I don't even bother engaging with this obvious bait, something he himself admitted was bait in the same conversation, but posting a meme photo of Draymond Green is somehow calling for the extermination of an entire race - my race? What about the fact that this person has routinely gone out of his way to harass myself and my friends? Not to mention the weird, random DM he sent me "apologizing" for spending months taking jabs at me in public channels because he can't stand to watch me call myself a nice, friendly person. Some apology, might I add, considering I know and he knows that he didn't mean a word of it. What's the point? Why are you bothering me with this shit? At what point is this targeted harassment?

It doesn't fucking matter if you think I'm a bad person, I deserve to be treated with the same respect and be sent through the same channels as any other member of the community. Yes, this does mean I don't think I am magically immune to any punishments; I know that I am/was due at minimum a warning for SOME of the shit I've said, if not worse punishment. I am not here to defend every single action I've taken, but why the hell am I being painted as a racist incel anti-semite behind closed doors and then being gaslit about it in my own fucking DMs by the same people who despise me?

Yeah sure, it's being said in staff channels, those are private and not meant for my eyes. Please don't sit there and pretend, though, that A. that is not influencing your treatment of me, and B. that is not influencing fellow staff members' opinions and treatment of me.

I am well aware that I am not universally loved, and I am not asking for any special treatment. I literally never have, and I never will. I welcome a vibes-based COI even, if that's what is deemed necessary (I AM ALSO WELL AWARE THIS IS NOT BEING DISCUSSED) because I can tell that I am not wanted in this community by the people running it, no matter what kind of PR posts are put here in this thread. You cannot ignore the fact that this kind of conduct will not magically cease as soon as I'm gone, and as soon as Frosty or Beaker or whoever the fuck is in my secretive troll clique today is gone too. This is not healthy and it will only harm your community if you continue to feed the staff echo chamber.

I am a person. If I offend you, if I say something that upsets you or bothers you, or if you think I'm upset with you or my tone is off, just fucking say something PLEASE. I am not going to attack you or belittle you for just fucking talking to me. When I find out about character assassinations behind my back, yes I am going to mock that, because why are you not just talking to me? Why are we sitting there for hours talking about my INTENT and how there is just no fathomable scenario in which I am not being a bad person? I care about people. I have empathy. I have feelings. I love a lot of people in this community, and I am extremely bitter and sad that I don't get to enjoy this community to the extent I want to.

When I was staff before, I was on "good" behavior. I had to be to some degree to get staff, right? Why is it that even then, when i had no "beef" or issues in the community, I was STILL being shit talked behind my back by fellow staff? Someone I genuinely, wholeheartedly believed I was friends with. This person harassed me out of the community because I wanted my pronouns to be respected. Yes, that is literally the only reason. I don't like being referred to with they/them pronouns if I can help it. That is it. Why the fuck was i labelled a transphobe and completely ignored when I tried to address this directly? Why is it that nothing ever came of that situation?

If I am treated that way even when I am in good standing in the community, why the fuck would I bother trying to figure out what I'm specifically doing wrong in Jabba's eyes? Why would I care? Nothing I do or say matters, because I will still be treated like shit. So whatever man.




Also stop trying to make this about me and Frosty Jabba. You can get rid of both of us if you want to, you'd still have a massive issue on your hands. It's not just us. And stop grouping me in with Memelord please, you literally watched him tell me I love to kill kids because I've had 2 abortions in the past. How fucking disingenuous.

I don't really have much to say here. But an emote reaction didn't seem adequate. To a great degree (and in a good way) your post reaffirms my impression of who you are as a person and what you're like. Thank you, sincerely, for taking the time to pour your heart out like this. I think it is very important that you said it. That you made clear your own views and thoughts and feelings regarding everything you've been involved with. So, thank you for putting yourself out there like this. It matters and it's crucial that we hear it <3

 

[BART]

So for my own sake and to hopefully help get the community back on track toward being the fun and comfy hangout it should be - that it was created to be:
What would you (all, not just Rick) suggest be done, changed, or considered going forward?

Obviously since its an abstract idea it can never be 100% but decide where "the line" is in terms of disturbing content/what type of community we are going for, and train staff on it. When this community was explained to me I was told it would be more mature than AHG/allowing people to be slightly edgier (there was even a weed channel) but now we're deleting flash microwave gifs so idk where that line is. We have a TTT server with heads getting blown off and suicide bombs. I think we can definitely lighten up on some stuff. Most of this conflict comes from people just trying to tell jokes. I don't think it needs to be such a big deal as staff makes it, these are regulars who are adding the community's experience. Another thing that can help with this is reducing/stopping stacking punishments for things that are obviously jokes. Just give them a day discord time out and be done with it. There's obviously types of jokes that should be banned on sight, and most the time you can tell when people are intentionally trying to piss people off/offend rather than tell a poorly thought out joke. Or I can at least, some staff have great difficulty with that.

I had this conversation many times on AHG, my advice wasn't taken, and now we are in Giant's Lair. With AHG, the bans and the weird surveillance shit staff were doing (instead of just talking to their players) would affect some of the most energizing and interesting players, the type of people who made people excited to play. You lose those players then you lose their friends, the "Hey that guy's on I should join too!" guys. Eventually a community becomes a stale circle-jerk consisting of solely of ex-staff who all agree with each other.

Policy wise I think instead of staff having long discussions on whether or not someone should be banned or "how close they are" and "gathering evidence" they just talk to the person first. I've been admin (and I got lead for a little in AHG) and I really think the method of staff shit talking people in their staff channels, resenting a player more and more, until player fuck up enough for a ban is just bad. There was threads on players who had no idea every mistake they were making could get them banned because no one would tell them, and since "the line" was vague enough some people could get banned for things some people wouldn't. In past communities I've been a part of staff, communication to players was expected and essential, bans weren't really ever a surprise. It feels like there's an archetype of staff member who doesn't see themselves of helpers of a gaming community, but instead security for a sacred digital room, where the people inside are obstacles. Everything becomes personal with this type of mentality even though the person with it won't see it. Anyone with that mentality has no place staffing IMO.

Also I will say this thread/vibe is a big reason I don't play as much or make riskier jokes like I used to. Took a long time to get off the list and I don't want on it again

He got promoted right after btw

 

[beaker #1 jabba fan]

a
and this is exactly right. often times issues are just left to build when most problems could be solved by just sending someone a dm saying "hey lets just chill out about X"

To preface this, I wasn't planning on posting but my name has been brought up and I hisI feel like this needs to be more emphasized enough, I've been in multiple communities as a staff and player and have seen a lot of things play out similarity, it's nothing new. Im someone that struggles with autism and understanding hints and knowing what's socially acceptable or not, it's a spectrum and not all of us are a monolith. But more staff communication is needed , perhaps also showing what exactly what they did wrong as some of us may have trouble "reading the room" .I don't expect staff to be always on point on things but it also helps by keeping track of verbal warns a nd avoids possible miscommunication when someone claims they were verbally warned or if a staff claims they did verbally warned (in general), record keeping is always good to do!

Anyways, I hold a lot of respect Jabba and his work in the GSU due to some personal trauma relating to it when younger. And I do hope we can come to some sort of solution. I also have friends on both ends and I really want the longevity of the server to keep thriving. PATRICK JOY

 

[Frosty]

I obviously wasn't there and if it was awhile ago I hope it was addressed in some way.

I tried to escalate this issue to senior management , but nothing was done.

At no point has the internal discussion been about building case files against specific users in the interest of permanently removing them from the community. If you have been told a different story you have been lied to by someone with a willful interest in escalating tensions. While some individual staff might feel differently, I want everyone here interacting, as long as those interactions are genuine and welcoming to everyone.

I have quite literally seen contradicting evidence. Why are you, as the owner of this community , openly lying about what is happening in a staff chat operated by you? Why do you continue to defend the actions of people who are KNOWN to be toxic members of the community , why are you so above taking accountability for your own short comings? Why is there 0 communication for when a rule is broken? It gets to a point where i really do try and see it from your perspective but it is becoming increasingly apparent that you yourself have bias against me , please do not try and argue against this. You have quite literally asked staff members to gather evidence against me and my friends, why do you think that certain staff member was never reprimanded for sitting in vc and watching us like the fucking CIA ? I am also calling out members of staff directly . @zomborg is known to not only misinterpret the rules , but bend and mold them to her own simply-put incoherent and inconsistent moderation beliefs. Her BLATANT harassment of people on the server is shocking to say the least. @SirLemoncakes going out of his way in general to bait me in to saying things against white people by stating " I don't think heaven needs gentrification ,it's pretty nice already" or another banger like "But i guess white people are making heaven better? W for white people i guess " And then when he is called out for openly rage baiting he says " Did it get you though ". This is a fucking advisor . This is someone trusted in staff channels . @Ryan Also continuing to interact with me after i asked him to stop interacting with me , this along with contuous " stalking " which has quite literally driven me off the server. When i see that nothing is ever done about these staff members , i can either shut up and leave the community or make a post about it. Unfortunately these staff members along with others habitually harrass and innapropriately interact with MANY other members of the community who do not have the stomach for confrontation.

 

[Siddo]

Obviously since its an abstract idea it can never be 100% but decide where "the line" is in terms of disturbing content/what type of community we are going for, and train staff on it. When this community was explained to me I was told it would be more mature than AHG/allowing people to be slightly edgier (there was even a weed channel) but now we're deleting flash microwave gifs so idk where that line is. We have a TTT server with heads getting blown off and suicide bombs. I think we can definitely lighten up on some stuff. Most of this conflict comes from people just trying to tell jokes. I don't think it needs to be such a big deal as staff makes it, these are regulars who are adding the community's experience. Another thing that can help with this is reducing/stopping stacking punishments for things that are obviously jokes. Just give them a day discord time out and be done with it. There's obviously types of jokes that should be banned on sight, and most the time you can tell when people are intentionally trying to piss people off/offend rather than tell a poorly thought out joke. Or I can at least, some staff have great difficulty with that.

I had this conversation many times on AHG, my advice wasn't taken, and now we are in Giant's Lair. With AHG, the bans and the weird surveillance shit staff were doing (instead of just talking to their players) would affect some of the most energizing and interesting players, the type of people who made people excited to play. You lose those players then you lose their friends, the "Hey that guy's on I should join too!" guys. Eventually a community becomes a stale circle-jerk consisting of solely of ex-staff who all agree with each other.

Policy wise I think instead of staff having long discussions on whether or not someone should be banned or "how close they are" and "gathering evidence" they just talk to the person first. I've been admin (and I got lead for a little in AHG) and I really think the method of staff shit talking people in their staff channels, resenting a player more and more, until player fuck up enough for a ban is just bad. There was threads on players who had no idea every mistake they were making could get them banned because no one would tell them, and since "the line" was vague enough some people could get banned for things some people wouldn't. In past communities I've been a part of staff, communication to players was expected and essential, bans weren't really ever a surprise. It feels like there's an archetype of staff member who doesn't see themselves of helpers of a gaming community, but instead security for a sacred digital room, where the people inside are obstacles. Everything becomes personal with this type of mentality even though the person with it won't see it. Anyone with that mentality has no place staffing IMO.

Also I will say this thread/vibe is a big reason I don't play as much or make riskier jokes like I used to. Took a long time to get off the list and I don't want on it again

Thank you for putting together this response.
I agree that it's not feasible to 100% determine the line. Especially because once you draw the line, people will find edge cases that mean the line doesn't hold up. Which is exactly where I think discretion comes in to account for those outliers without blurring the line itself. However, I do think the ideal is to try to both determine and make clear that line, so it's easy for everyone - easy for staff to enforce, easy for people to follow. The shit list / long-winded discussions about particular users are a bigger negative than positive. I think there's merit to having them at times, because it helps as a check and balance. Where one staff member might be biased against someone, so they go looking for a second opinion. Fundamentally, I think that's good. However, I do think it's been poisoned into not being a check and balance, instead being a "why is this person not banned" type conversation. I don't know how best to facilitate those conversations, but I think your assessment of the problems it creates is quite accurate. I also agree with your overall ideal for staff members. Being helpers rather than katana wielding samurai upholding the sacred kitten bushido on discord/ttt/minecraft.

In closing, I don't think staff currently have a unified vision for where the line should be - nor even where it's good for the line to be. I know it's something that's been iterated on continuously. And hopefully with all the conversation here, we can get closer to having that clear idea of what the community should be like. Thanks again for giving your feedback, it's very valuable <3

 

[Siddo]

To preface this, I wasn't planning on posting but my name has been brought up and I hisI feel like this needs to be more emphasized enough, I've been in multiple communities as a staff and player and have seen a lot of things play out similarity, it's nothing new. Im someone that struggles with autism and understanding hints and knowing what's socially acceptable or not, it's a spectrum and not all of us are a monolith. But more staff communication is needed , perhaps also showing what exactly what they did wrong as some of us may have trouble "reading the room" .I don't expect staff to be always on point on things but it also helps by keeping track of verbal warns a nd avoids possible miscommunication when someone claims they were verbally warned or if a staff claims they did verbally warned (in general), record keeping is always good to do!

Anyways, I hold a lot of respect Jabba and his work in the GSU due to some personal trauma relating to it when younger. And I do hope we can come to some sort of solution. I also have friends on both ends and I really want the longevity of the server to keep thriving. PATRICK JOY

This is pretty accurate, I think. A lot of our record-keeping has been lacking. And the same can easily be said for communicating with people about punishments, warnings, etc.
I'm only really involved with the discord side, but we're currently working on making that record-keeping and communication better. It's not gonna be perfect and it'll take a while. But if I/we are getting something wrong, I'd love to hear from you what your perspective is. We might not agree or see eye to eye on it, but I think having that extra view point is highly valuable in workshopping particularly the discord side of things into a better place.

 

[Husky]

Hey everyone, Husky here. I want to thank everyone that's posted so far and take a moment to try to contribute to this post in a positive, respectful, and concise manner.

I am truly and utterly terrified that any post I make in this forum will result in retaliation. Even with the reassurance, I am genuinely afraid that one day I will wake up, and I will be disallowed from this community. Gone from my friends and from my contributions I've made in this community.

I won't lie to you when I say that I have made mistakes, hurt people, and have done things that either weren't befitting as a staff, person, or just straight up both. I've accepted those consequences and understand that the actions that led to them were wrong. And to those I hurt, I am truly sorry.

I accept that I needed to work on things, seek forgiveness, and try to reconcile as well as focus on learning from my mistakes. I looked inward. Most importantly, I tried. I tried to be better. I sought therapy, got diagnosed with multiple mental conditions, and treated them with both medication and working towards Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in order to better become emotionally and spiritually mature.
As of right now, I am disallowed from applying from staff unless I get approval from a lead or higher first. I feel despite the time spent improving and trying to be better will no matter what result in direct rejection and that would never change, no matter how much I do.

The way I like to think of my place in upper administration is that no matter which path I take - and there are many - I will end up in the same end result - a mixture of rejection, contempt, and judgement. I feel like a target is on my back. I feel as if I am an obstacle to overcome, a fire to be put out, or a bomb to be defused. I feel like that with this current administration, that will not change, and I will always be seen as something I am not.

A good example of this is with this video from the famous cartoon known as Courage the Cowardly Dog. Courage's caretaker Muriel is turned into a younger version of herself and must be the one to be taken care of. A scene I resonate with a lot is the macaroni and cheese scene, which for reference can be found here -

No matter which way Courage made that mac and cheese, Muriel rejected it, and even after he finally made it perfectly, she rejected it anyways stating she never liked mac and cheese anyway. While Courage didn't know that, he was fighting a losing battle nevertheless. No matter which way he made the food, no matter how hard he worked and no matter how patient and attentive he was to try to make this situation comfortable for his former caretaker turned into the one that needs to be taken care of, he was never going to be able to make her happy in that instance.

This represents one of the things I have been feeling for months, heck even since I was an admin. I didn't feel heard - I felt like problems got swept under the rug, and pleads and suggestions were ignored. I felt as if the results of decisions made by upper management for the most part were predetermined, unchanging, and incapable of change.

We became (and I say we because I include myself in some of these situations) exactly what we swore to destroy. We are no different than SGM when it comes to the mentality and mindset some staff are upholding. We say we are, and mind you I believe at some points we were. But as of right now, we're no different than SGM.

I've felt for many months we've slowly crept towards the mentality that people have to have a certain "vibe" or mindset in order to maintain a positive outcome in the community.

If you aren't a part of that, you are a target, and it leads to negative consequences. I will provide an example of my negative experience.

I recently just reported a staff member. The report included the following at the end of it, citing "But this needs to be said because if you genuinely believe that you're promoting a fun, competitive environment then you need to reevaluate what you're doing. You've seriously upset a lot of people, and I would be remiss to simply mark this report valid without addressing the harm you're doing. I don't know what outcome you're hoping to get out of this report, but I hope you walk away understanding that this entire situation and all of the grief resulting from it was completely avoidable, and that your actions have neither been innocent nor in the spirit of good fun."

Basically the result is "Hey they should not have exploited against you, but you also should have not griefed and caused harm" (mind you, perfectly within the rules of the game).

Mind you, in that report I was accused of my "actions were also not within the rules either, as your lava casts constitute exploiting. You placed the lava intentionally in such a way that it would spread into claimed areas and bypass land protections. You are making yourself out to be the victim in a situation where the only actual damage done was done by you, repeatedly, to multiple different people, entirely unprovoked. Your actions are discouraging people from wanting to play on the server and were outright rude."

I politely corrected the lead at the time, showing proof and evidence that I in fact did NOT exploit as well as not breaking the rules in any capacity. I asked for this to be removed, as it puts me in an image I did not deserve, only to be blatantly ignored.

I was put down, and the staff cheered as I despite having what I felt at the time was a valid feeling. Do not get me wrong, I could've handled it better, but I felt that no matter what, I would have been swept under the rug in private. I looked awful and looked as if I basically caused the problem myself when in reality - I did not break any rules. Albeit, people didn't appreciate the griefing. I can respect that and that makes complete sense. The report looked more like a display and example by the staff than an attempt to try and provide feedback and a better understanding of the rules we're trying to slowly develop in a gamemode that was released 2 months ago. It looked more like "Yeah you're technically right but you played victim so don't do that."

A short time later, I had done something I did not know at the time was exploiting. I was not aware that the act I did was considered exploiting, and instead of speaking to me normally or communicating as a staff, I was told by this staff member: "So much for limiting mcmmo farming to real mobs and all that complaining."

Mind you, I am LITERALLY the creator of the thread that says https://giantslair.com/threads/allow-to-farm-xp-combat-by-using-mob-farms.1378/ - "Allow to Farm XP (Combat) by Using Mob Farms.

So instead of saying "Hey what you're doing is considered exploiting" or "Hey maybe we should look into this" the person left, called for my ban, and refused to do anything but silently and blatantly record me to get me into trouble later, as if I was doing something wrong.

I was genuinely on the chopping block to receive a possible ban. I spoke to the lead administration about it, and was told: "as someone who likes you, I would ask you to refrain from pushing boundaries in these ways. If you routinely push the rules, youre going to give plenty of reason to get banned. I don't want to see that happen. You know where the line is, stop crossing it and you'll have a better time." I had asked at the time how I could have known this was an exploit and stated that no one had told me what I did was exploiting until I already got a warning - they had responded among many things that "youre a smart guy whos done this before".

This ultimately lead me to being posed the following: "why must we push the rules to their furthest extent? - but yes, you arent going to be punished for this - but if you continue giving chances like this, one of them will stick yaknow -
i dont know why youve decided to be as controversial as possible, i think other things would suit you better. youre not in trouble here, just stop doing stuff like this, and ill make sure people arent targetting you."

This isn't the full conversation, but those are the most important parts. I have been asked to act a certain way to avoid being a target to staff and other people.

At the end of the day, I felt no matter what I said or what I did, I was framed in a way that despite doing the same thing as the staff I reported, I was made out to be punished, doing so intentionally, and being "smart enough to know better" while the staff member had decided to try and push for something that could've been resolved with a short conversation. If someone said "Please don't do that we consider that exploiting" I would have stopped and not argued with the staff member. I wouldn't have continued. Had I truly known I was committing a serious exploit, I would have never done it.

Don't get me wrong - if someone truly does something awful and disdainful, by all means if they're breaking the rules act accordingly.

But we've been doing mental gymnastics and using any and all ways to analyze and overanalyze the words people say to a point where you'd wonder if people actually deserve it.

You're not allowed to have your mistakes and wrongdoings forgotten. You're never allowed to be forgiven, and ANY and all infractions will be used against you at this current stage. I've seen it happen firsthand, and I believe I also am a part of that.

Don't get me wrong though, I definitely deserve some of those infractions, but I just don't think anything I can say, do, or feel will ever cause this to change in their eyes.

On one hand, I've pondered "Well why does their opinions matter?" and thought to myself "Opinions wise sure it doesn't matter, but they're the ones that can get rid of me at a moment's notice for seemingly no reason."

I don't feel safe in this community that I've put countless hours, time (both on and off of staffing), and other resources trying to put together. It feels wrong supporting a place where you are unable to shed yourself and move forward of any infraction, minor or otherwise. A bad taste in your mouth or otherwise. Nothing gets past, even if you didn't break a rule. You'll be known for whatever you did.

I've felt no love and no work towards progress in this community since my fall from grace. Mind you, whether or not it's deserved is not why I am here to make this post. I am telling you that as of right now, I feel there is no going back to anything you once were if things went wrong in any capacity. Something said wrong. You maybe could've handled something better. You're on the radar no matter what.

I want to feel that I can breathe again in a place I call home. A community where you can be forgiven - be allowed to move forward. I want to be able to say and do things with good intentions and believe that people will listen.

I don't feel listened to and neither does a lot of people.

Staff in my opinion takes things personally - criticism is treated as attacks and the people sending the feedback are considered enemies.

We were taught when I first became admin since the servers creation and release to have leniency and to be understanding. To be able to provide fair and clear judgement on things in a non-bias manner.

I believed we've failed. I believe that we've went backwards in our mindset in some ways and it's leading to these conversations having to be made.

@Agennon - It saddens me to see that the entirety of the posts you see here and this is all you seemingly had to say?
You're absolutely right - nobody wants to have
- Calls for Violence and Death, including Ethnic Cleansing
- Spam posting involving incel slang that is intended to dehumanize women.
- Direct Harassment and Hostilities towards other Members"

But let me tell you, there is a LOT more to unpack than that. You'd have to be a stormtrooper to miss any of the basic, clear, and respectful points in this case. They all speak on different topics, and if you truly need it listed for you, I can gladly do that if you find that this is that difficult for you to find a singular point to worry about other than "Hey this is what we've punished for" - which doesn't speak to anything else in the thread.

I think that yes sure - you've spoken about this in private channels, but what about publicly? What plans did you have to present any of this to people who don't have access to these smaller, private channels? How would we know what is going on unless you communicate that?

You wish to work together, but whenever problems come up that I've been a part of, not a single lead goes out of their way to help investigate the issues or even you - literally can't remember a time a lead+ has spoken to me to work through an issue instead of just messaging me to tell me I am punished for x reason - especially when it's appropriate. You'll all discuss the individual situations and work on a resolution, but both the report I sent and the punishment I got the next week for the same thing didn't involve me at all. No one asked me anything about it, spoke to me about it minus one lead, which: doesn't play the game, and doesn't know the context of the situation.

Don't take this personally, please. This is not an attack on you or anyone for that matter. I do not have any hatred or problems with you or really anyone. Sure I can be upset at them, but I mostly keep on good terms with people minus some exceptions.

I think this place has a lot of potential, and as of right now, it's slowly going to burn to the ground if things aren't done.

I care about this place, the people, and the potential this place has. There's a lot of things that can be done, and right now we need to do more listening and reflecting as people. On both sides. We need to work together to be able to solve these problems while also recognizes where both parties may or may not fall short.

This is not a post to really sit there and make anyone out to be monsters - I am just trying to better point out and identify the patterns I've both personally experienced and have seen firsthand. I think we can do better, respectfully.

Please please PLEASE. I am begging you. Please understand that this is not me trying to sit here and openly be rude or disrespectful. I don't want people to think I am here to just spout insults or nonsense. I am trying to do this in the best way I know how and I am begging you to please understand that I am not here to cause you trouble or pain. Despite my mistakes, I have good intentions and will always have good intentions. I am not perfect but I don't claim to be. I'm sorry.

This is a cry for help. This is a plea for both forgiveness and a plea for change. This place isn't the same like it used to and the regular individuals are slowly being lost to "vibes". This is an attempt to try to rebuild and put something back together, both relationships wise and community wise. I wish for us to be able to speak and work together on problems one in the same. Two parties - staff and non-staff together. I think it's possible. I think we can do that.

I'm tired. A lot of people are, especially the staff member us regulars affected call our literally "lawyer". Everyone is tired. It's ok to feel that way. It's ok to be tired of talking about it privately.

But this had to be said. We had to try in any way we knew how, and I thank @Rick Sanchez for being the one to do it. I can't tell you how grateful I am seeing this and seeing others post their thoughts.

We have to do this - otherwise our chances of survival and growth turn to nothingness. We can provide clear and honest expectations without having to make people feel like they are under surveillance. We can choose to provide clear and fair judgements without making others feel as if the Sword of Damocles is hovering over their head - that they can be able to move forward from problems that eventually come up. We should be able to move forward from mistakes as long as there are active attempts to improve. It starts with sorry.

As they say, "This is the way the world ends / Not with a bang but a whimper".

A lot of people due to this have either resigned, detached themselves, or a combination of both. Some people who aren't even staff are just outright leaving and not coming back, as far as I know not even trying to reconcile or speak on their experience or experiences.

A lot of us are grieving in a sense. Watching this place slowly fade and become a hollow of its former self, and I can't help but feel I am haunting this place like a ghost.

I have had so many moments wanting to just walk away from this place, but for some reason I stay. Why? Why would I in a place where I don't feel loved stay?

I love this place with all my heart, but it feels like this is halfway love. I don't want to have to convince you to stay. I don't want to have to believe that I have to act or behave a certain way beyond not breaking the rules portion. I don't wish to be loved conditionally. I wish to be loved completely. Flaws and all.

I want to be able to seem as if that feedback can be given both ways - allowing for people to grow together. This community to grow together. I've met a lot of people and I want us to treat each other like humans - remember we make mistakes, we do things wrong. We're not perfect, but we can move forward with things. We can continue forward and find a compromise that fits everyone.

I don't need the outcome of this post or any posts for that matter coming through thinking "I have to defend myself and I believe I have to uphold the communities reputation or my reputation". That's not what I want to see.

I want to see like most people - see a fair shake. Being able to move forward and for people to give feedback without it feeling like we're out here to hurt others on both sides.

At the end of this all, I wish to leave for you an anecdote from Frieren: Beyond Journey's End -

*Spoilers Ahead*

"The Sword of the Hero can only be drawn by the Hero who shall drive away the great calamity that would bring destruction upon this world" - You would expect the main character and hero responsible for the significant destruction of evil to have this sword no?

You learn that he was unable to take out the sword. Instead of believing he was not chosen by fate and walking away, he said that he would convince the world that didn't matter if he was a fake hero or not.

He recognized that despite not being perfect or destined to wield this sword, he continue to make clear and conscious efforts to be a true hero - he died knowing he was hailed as a true hero, and the real secret of not wielding the real sword was kept a secret in that village ever since.

That is what I am asking for here. Conscious attempts to recognize and provide effort in a tired and weary place.

And can we please stop taking things so offensively as if people are personally attacking one another when it comes to feedback? Providing constructive criticism or feedback is not an attack! Sure I am not privy or perfect with that - and for that I am sorry, but like the response to some frustrating possibly aggressive tone of things should be identifying why the people are frustrated anyways! Not that your friend may feel insulted.

So with this, I will suggest the following:

Please give players a fair shake. Provide evidence and clear communications on the expectations, offenses, etc. This is equal for all staff. I believe that providing them with less of a personal recap and more of a clear and concise posts with examples would be best. Talk things out. Speak and communicate as two people trying to get to a fair endpoint and NOT as "You have done x wrong, stop this or face the consequences' then proceed to not speak to them anymore about it. One thing that should be noted is that this can apply to appeals, any requests for that information, or even just if admins+ think a certain situation should warrant discussion. Speak with the people involved on both sides. I've had several conversations and situations happen where I won't get spoken to unless it's to lay out what will happen. It's frustrating.

Please give players the benefit of the doubt when it comes to offenses, history, etc. We advocated for this, and it quickly has changed. I've witnessed conversations and people literally mention "Why bother unbanning them, they're just going to go back and do the same thing again" - albeit sometimes this is true and people do the same, but I have changed my mind about this mindset. I think everyone should be able to get the same treatment barring clearly blatant and changing circumstances.

Please be under the mindset that people are capable of change. That people aren't just out to cause trouble. Some people just want to sit here and enjoy the community and we have different senses of humor and social interaction. That isn't a change in vibes, it's literally just people behaving differently. It doesn't mean break the rules, of course. No one should actively break the rules - some people are quirky and different. I mean look at SnapDat. The amount of controversy that caused, despite him not even really breaking rules. He just didn't fit the vibes, and he's gone. Albeit - he certainly made it tough to defend him, and some of the stuff he did was wrong. We were built on the aspect of leniency, and I truly think we've stepped away with that.

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[Husky]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------An Afterword:

I speak to this from the very depths of my heart and soul - I've felt this way for months, even years since SGM and I want you to know I tried looking inward. I tried looking at myself and wondering where I could do better. Where I could improve. I tried believing that myself - that within me resides problems and faults. But I am not both sides. I am one of two. And right now, I feel halfway love.

I feel as if over time, despite positive changes I've made and attempted (I am not claiming to be without fault), that I'm never able to even be back in this group or anything. As if I can't be forgiven. And if I have, I certainly haven't felt that way.

Maybe I'm wrong at the end of the day. Maybe it's all me. I'd feel a lot better if things were better communicated to me. I'm sure it could've been done better on both sides.

I need you all to know I tried truly. I truly sought help, and I thank the people that have defended me and some of my actions despite everything. I was not perfect. I don't claim to be perfect. I claim to try though, which is what I hope others will continue to do in these trying times.

Frankly, it's been tiring. And I am tired. I go through a lot and so does everyone else.

I haven't mentioned everything here, but there is more. I feel hollow after all of it and felt as if I was more pushed out of staffing and in the end, the community as a whole at this point. I really feel unwanted and unloved.

It's been really upsetting - I really just sit here sometimes and stare at my computer blankly for hours wondering where I went wrong. And sometimes I deserve it- sometimes I just flatout don't.

I want this place to be the place where two people can work together - staff, non-staff alike can exist without feeling as if we need to find blame or fault in each other. We can simply work on the problems together, and treat it like something we can walk down together.

There's possibility of change and improvement from all sides. We can work together to make this happen.

I am honest afraid that when I post this, I will be dog piled. That people will look at it as "dumb" and spend time nitpicking each word said and defending it as if they are making a final stand at the alamo. I just want to be able to speak from the heart and have an expectation that I can't make an attempt to try to communicate. I'm bad at it! I try. I know it's not great, but I'm not here trying to tell you that I am perfect.

Once again.

I am a person. I am capable of making mistakes.

But I am NOT a fire to be put out. I am NOT a person to be worried about or avoided because they think I am going to "crash out". I am NOT a bomb to be defused.

My name is Ross. I love many hobbies and love many people. I don't believe the staff in this community love me back. I call it "halfway love."

Whatever happens after this, just know that I tried. I tried to love this place, I tried to love the people. I tried to love myself. I've had good intentions the day I entered this place and I intend to leave this place one day continuing to have good intentions.

I am not a monster or a person who is meant to destroy. A lot of my frustration is out of despair and pain. I don't feel heard.

So I come here speaking to you from my soul - not from Husky. From Ross. From someone who has spent his life afraid and lonely and tired. From someone who has been beaten and broken for years - trying to believe that love exists, and I should try to continue existing and taking risks that love exists.

I'm tired, and just want to see consistency and a place where both sides can grow.

I think we can still continue to exist together, and work towards a solution together. I think we can love one another and move forward. We all have a goal in mind that we can welcome one another and grow as people. Together.

My heart breaks seeing all of this. I'm so sorry. I don't want to be a villain in anyone's story and if you see me that way, I am sorry. Please reach out. Or try. I want to seek your forgiveness and hope to continue forward with the people.

This is why I will extend my hand to the world. I hope you look back and we can make this happen together.

I'm scared. I'm scared of posting this, I'm scared of being dog piled. I'm scared I wake up tomorrow and I am not allowed back in this place I am afraid I wake up and I am told once again what will happen and I have no say - not even a conversation. I don't expect the words to convince people otherwise, but I don't feel included even in decisions that are about me. I'm scared of chasing only to be turned down at the end of it all. I'm scared of feeling as if I can't change. That I am only going to a monster in this place's story. To the people.

I'm here and I don't want to go. I don't want to FUCKING see this place fall apart. It and the older communities have been despite the cruelty at times a place I call home. The good and bad I embrace. I'm ok with asking for the rain and the mud that comes after - what I am not ok with is the belief that we have to sit here and silently watch this place die.

We've all seen it. Populations less active, some staff less active. People less interested. More arguments, more debates. We can never come to decisions on things. Someone always has to be right. There can never just be a goal to do the right thing.

I want this place to be strong. For people to treat it as a second home - something to come home to. Not a place where you must say the right things, or be considered a target. Someone incapable of change.

I love you all. Remember to be kind most of all.
Thank you.
Ross

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